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Old 05-04-2003, 06:04 AM   #1
Kim
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Uniform of marshal Katukov...

This is what is curentlly on a swedish auction site. They claim that it is marshal Michail Efimovich Katukov’s uniform. Comes direclyt from the marshals family… Buy it now price is about 500$. That includes cap, trousers and tunic.

Any thoughts about the autenticity? Price?

/Kim
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Old 05-04-2003, 06:11 AM   #2
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it is from swedish E? the seller is known? because the jacket doesn't present any traces of wear, and since i discovered this US site using ukraine national symbol, who sells soviets uniforms certainly coming from the same old factory, Im suspicious...

sebastien "help me care my paranoia"
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Old 05-04-2003, 06:46 AM   #3
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Well there are a couple of ways to check. Ask the seller to check the dates on the buttons, if any are later than 1976, then it is not as he died in 1976. In fact if they are later than 1974 then I would be suspicious. Is there any documentation with the uniform?
I would treat it as a fake unless you are proved wrong, as Chalet says this company (if it is the one I am thinking of) is overpriced and is known to sell repros. Granted that they do say they are repros but I still would view it with suspicion.

Here is a breakdown of his career

Marshal Mikhail E. Katukov (1900-1976):
1938 : Commanding Officer ? Tank Brigade
: General Officer Commanding ? Tank Division
1940-41: General Officer Commanding 20th Tank Division
1941-42: Commanding Officer 4th Tank Brigade
1942 : Commanding Officer 1st Guards Brigade
1942 : General Officer Commanding I Tank Corps
1942-43: General Officer Commanding III Mechanized Corps
1943 : General Officer Commanding 3rd Reserve Army
1943-44: General Officer Commanding 1st Tank Army
1944-45: General Officer Commanding 1st Guards Tank Army
: General Officer Commanding Mechanized & Tank Troops Soviet Group of Forces, East Germany
1955-57: Inspector Ministry of Defence
1957-63: Assistant Head Main Directorate of Military Training
1963 : Inspector-General of the Army
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Old 05-04-2003, 08:19 AM   #4
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Two other things of interest-

1. The shoulder boards and bullion work looks very bight and new... and it should be at least 30 years old, if not closer to 40.

2. He only has a handful of foreign awards. I have seen pod-palkovniks with more foreign awards than that! Especially since his last several jobs were ones that would have required fairly close involvement with their Warsaw-pact allies.

I could be wrong, but that's just my opinion... :)

--Dave
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Old 05-04-2003, 08:58 AM   #5
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Katukov

This uniform was on e-bay awhile back.

This might be a tank marshals tunic, but might not be his. Remember, he was a 2 time HSU and I see no marks for that.

Also, in the e-bay listing the hat had the incorrect red cap band ( should be black) and 1982 style embroidery, well after his death.

My guess is its to one of the lesser known 1970's tank marshals and they just stuck his name on it.

some of his stuff did come up for sale last year; one of his M1943 tunics (made in 1945) in grey, high quality with HSU holes, correct ribbons, and an original photo of him wearing it. I sold it with no problem of course, but these things only really go with real provenance.

DD
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Old 05-05-2003, 02:57 AM   #6
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Is it just me or does the tank on the boards look fat and crude??

With brand new looking boards I vote for Ukrainian fake.

Shawn
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Old 05-08-2003, 09:09 AM   #7
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Sorry for this late reply. My computer has been very, very bad to me.

It's not on swedish "crap-bay" it's a swedish language auction site. The seller has no feed back... always a giveaway. He links to his site in Finland were he has lots of "authentic" soviet modern uniforms. I think this one is bad but I haven't seen it for real.

If anyone want a link to the auction or the sellers site PM me.

and hurry to bid. Now the price has been lowered to a buy-it-now price at about 450$;)

/Kim
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Old 05-08-2003, 12:22 PM   #8
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sellers

well, it was on US e-bay awhile back. It was linked to the Finnish site that had modern stuff that looked ok, but nothing special.

Does the swedish site have a hat with it?

dd
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Old 05-09-2003, 12:18 PM   #9
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No photo of the cap or pants. This auction site has a 50K limit on pics, so he has just posted this one. But I think that the finnish site had some more photos. What colour the cap band was... well I forget...:o

/Kim
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Old 06-23-2003, 11:26 AM   #10
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Answer from the seller

Hello,
thanks for discussing the item. I am very happy to discuss it - in fact I have my doubts myself. First, I can tell you that this uniform was purchased through a dealer in the USA that have sold some other named marshals uniforms. His name is XXXXXXXXXX, email address is XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

(Not allowed. If any one want the details he could PM you!)

Over to your questions and concerns:

-The buttons: One of them is dated later than 1976, I think it was 1980. I guess that one is a replacement.

-The hat: I am no expert in hat band colors, but on this one, I am busted. It is wrong, and I have not thought of it. I will contact the one who sold it to me and clear things up. SORRY.

-The ribbons: I have no possibility to check up all the medals and orders of his career. I have no reason to doubt the authenticity of the uniform. If I had, I would not have purchased it in the first place.

-The shoulder boards:
The golden thread IS NOT bright. This may be caused by the flash from the camera. If anyone wants close-ups, just email me and I will produce the for you.

-Wear
I have limits on how much images I can post. The inside has wear, some holes and rips. If anyone doubts, I can email photos!
There are two holes on the "other side" where graduation badges have been.

And finally for my swedish neighbour:
Kim, om du vill titta närmare på den här jackan eller nån annan så kommer jag gärna över till Kappellskär eller till Stockholm och visar upp dom! Skulle vara roligt att träffas!

What I said above is, that I would gladly meet my swedish neighbour Kim and show him the uniforms!

I will gladly answer all your questions (or at least try to!) and send images if anyone wants.

Best regards,
Patrik
FINLAND

ps. You may check out our website
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

- No commercial websites allowed!

Last edited by Tal Inbar; 06-23-2003 at 11:31 AM.
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