Post-GPW award system

[desantnik]

Does anyone know about post-GPW awarding system?

Pre-war, for military folks there was the Lenin, RB, RS, BM, and CSM hierarchy, discounting labor awards.

Then, the war introduced the commander awards (Suvorov through Nevsky), Order of Victory, Order of the Patriotic War, the Order of Glory, and Nakhimov and Ushakov medals.

Then, post-war, the Order of Victory and commander awards were granted (i.e. Hungary, Czechoslovakia invasions, Cold War exercises and Brezhnev excesses), as well as the Nakhimov and Ushakov medals. Also post-war they introduced the "crab" and several more badges to presumably cover "holes" in the award system.

I guess my question is why weren't Orders of the Patriotic War and Orders of Glory NOT awarded for post-war actions (I'm not including retroactive awards for deeds/wounding from the GPW), especially if commander awards (i.e. Kutuzov and Nevsky) were granted? I guess the Order of the Patriotic War wasn't awarded due to it's name, but what about the Order of Glory?

[Alfred]

Interesting question ...

I am just guessing, why they awarded no Order of Glory for post-war actions.
Maybe, due to political reasons.

In the old tzarist Russia, there where always special awards for normal soldiers. The honorable award for soldiers was the George-cross. The ribbon of the Order of Glory remind of the George-cross.

Maybe it was political not desired, to have awards that could not reached by everyone, or to have awards belonging to special groups. Maybe it was the purpose not to remember on the award system of the tzarist Russia and the social class system of Russia.

But also the highest military Order, "The Order of Victory" was not awarded for post war actions, maybe it was the purpose to connect both awards only with the Great Patriotric War? To make these awards exclusive.

But maybe the answer lies in the Statute of the Order. They changed the Statute for the Order of Glory on 26.02 and 16.12.1947 and on 08.08.1957.

[medals73]

I thought the Order of Glory was awarded for Afghanistan? The OPW was ended, when the GPW ended? Or am I wrong?

[desantnik]

The Order of Victory was awarded in 1978 to Brezhnev.

Medals73, welcome to the forum and to the discussion. If you have information on an Order of Glory being awarded during Afghanistan, please share it. I think you may be confusing it with an AFGHAN one? I'm fairly certain there were no post-war awardings EXCEPT "catch up" awards, retroactive for actions during the Great Patriotic War. The same goes for Orders of the Patriotic War.

Alfred - maybe you are right that the reason for no awardings of the Order of Glory is connected with the later regulations. I don't think the Soviet government was "embarrassed' by its ties to the St. George cross. This award was very highly esteemed as being awarded only for combat (i.e. not staff work or long service) and to enlisted men who usually got the shorter end of the stick than officers when it came to awards.

[Simon]

Order of Glory was awarded for feats during suppression of 1956 "anti-revolutionary coup" in Hungary.

http://www.mondvor.narod.ru/OSlava.html

[HuliganRS]

I read a citation for a Nevsky awarded for the Chech Republic incident...

Rusty.

[desantnik]

Originally Posted by Simon

Order of Glory was awarded for feats during suppression of 1956 "anti-revolutionary coup" in Hungary.

http://www.mondvor.narod.ru/OSlava.html

Well blow me down, that's interesting. It also emphasizes my question - why/when did they decide not to grant this award and others like OPW any more?

[Simon]

Originally Posted by desantnik

Well blow me down, that's interesting.

I simply answered your question.

[desantnik]

Thank you for shedding some light on my initial question by providing an instance where the Order of Glory was awarded for events in Hungary. I am not aware of an OPW being awarded for Hungary, but maybe it goes to reason they were awarded too. In my mind the question still remains as to why/when the WWII issue awards, or more specifically the Glory and OPW stopped being issued for events not related to the GPW. I can say with almost 100% certainty that neither of these awards were granted for Afghanistan or post-Afghanistan. Thus, sometime between 1956 and 1979 these awards ceased being issued for post-war actions. This is what I'm trying to find out.

[Simon]

Thank you. I would like to share my opinion about the reason why Victory, GPW, Glory disappeared from the post-war award system.

After GPW, nobody deserved Victory. In post war years, the Soviet Army didn't engage in a conflict where "a general commanded one or more fronts and conducted an operation that drastically changed the sitution." Victory's status and price of its diamonds protected this order from Khrushchev's and Brezhnev's excesses. It was easier and cheaper for a leader of USSR to select other order for his favorite African tribal leader in recognition of his skillful leadership in the struggle against capitalists. Brezhnev gave himself Victory. The prestige of this decoration was so high that it was the only one that was posthumously taken away from him. Keep in mind that Brezhnev pinned himself with many high-ranking awards that he didn't deserve including 4 HSU stars.

Common sense told me that order of GPW could only be awarded for something done during this war. Not so. Mondvor site states that in 1946 collective farm workers were given GPW for collecting harvest in a dry season :weird and Soviet Army personnel was rarely [but nevertheless]awarded this order after the war.

Glory was supposed to be awarded for "glorious deeds in battles for Soviet Motherland." It was a pure combat distinction. If a soldier was decorated with Glory, the government would have to admit that its army was fighting battles. It was politically undesirable. Soviet military personnel was only advising in Korea and Vietnam. Only a limited contingent was sent to Afghanistan where it was supposedly doing mostly humanitarian work.

In my mind the question still remains as to why/when the WWII issue awards, or more specifically the Glory and OPW stopped being issued for events not related to the GPW. I can say with almost 100% certainty that neither of these awards were granted for Afghanistan or post-Afghanistan. Thus, sometime between 1956 and 1979 these awards ceased being issued for post-war actions.

Between 1956 and 1979, only a few Soviet soldiers were involved in combat at hot spots. These operations were either classified or at least not suitable for the media. Therefore, it was undesirable to award pure combat awards for political reasons discussed in the previous paragraph. Imagine a soldier coming home in let's say 1970 with Glory for his actions in a classified mission. What would he say to curious neighbours? Even if Glory was awarded between 1956 and 1979, it was done in small quantity and the collector community doesn't know about it. As for Afghanistan, I can speculate that Defense Ministry issued an instruction specifying which orders and medals were to be given for this conflict. Such instruction, if it existed, didn't include Glory.

Cheers,

Simon