Miniatures Of Soviet Awards.

[desantnik]

Many years ago I remember seeing a "rack" 4-5 of these mini awards for sale and if memory serves me correct, they had improvised mini-ribbons too, but I'm not entirely certain.

I've been looking for these for years and have only found these two. They are very high quality and very small (US cent for comparison). I believe these to be official issue due to the quality, but they're so small there is no room for a mintmark.

I have found cheaper "znachki" designs (an Order of Lenin and Order of the Red Star) about the size of a US nickel, but those are cheap metal with an inexpensive pin-back and in no way compare to the quality of these true minis.

Also, one of the screwbacks seems not to be original issue due to the Latin script.

Does anyone know anything about these or has seen others?

[Nota Bene]

Paul,

Interesting! They look very detailed, but I don't believe they are Soviet made. I doubt that the Soviet mint would use a "gold head" Lenin as a model or this bright blue enamel on the RBL. In any case I think they deserve more research.

Alexei

[Sergei]

Originally Posted by desantnik

Also, one of the screwbacks seems not to be original issue due to the Latin script.

Maybe it is original, what does it say on the screwplate - it's a bit hard to read. Could be the name of the manufacturer, I will try to check with my Polish and Yugoslavian friends. Sergei.

[desantnik]

Originally Posted by Sergei

Maybe it is original, what does it say on the screwplate - it's a bit hard to read. Could be the name of the manufacturer, I will try to check with my Polish and Yugoslavian friends. Sergei.

MENNICA PARSTWAWA

Originally Posted by Nota Bene

Paul,

Interesting! They look very detailed, but I don't believe they are Soviet made. I doubt that the Soviet mint would use a "gold head" Lenin as a model or this bright blue enamel on the RBL. In any case I think they deserve more research.

Alexei

The bright gold is due to the flash, it's actually more subdued. As to their provenance, I've only rarely seen them before.

These two I found in Central Asia, a place not known for its collecting community. Seems they would have originated here, as opposed to making their way here from somewhere else. I agree, strange.

[Sergei]

There is a polish company making coins and medals, Mennica Panstwowa SA. Could be them? Sergei.

[desantnik]

Yes, you're probably right. I may have misread it.

Although Alexei may be correct that these are not Soviet manufacture, this is not conclusive proof that these particular miniatures are Polish - only this particular nut (screwback) was made there. I've seen other known Soviet badges with other eastern European screwback nuts.

[Al-muell]

Mennica Państwowa is the polish mint. Most likely an ex-soviet officer of the Polish Army ordered them.

There were NO award miniatures (except for that used for znaczki).

An answer to a letter from the Pole born in Odessa in 1905, who was an Red/Soviet Army officer until 1949 when he had his polish nationality confirmed and became an officer of the Polish Army....

The interesting fragment is circled/underlined in red

This is only for the circled/underlined part:

Original:
Весьма сожалеем, что не имеем удовлетворить Вашу просьбу и выслать "миниатюры" орденов и медалей: в Советском Союзе не принято носить такие "миниатюры" и их поэтому не делают.

Translated:
Let us very regret, that we do not have to satisfy your request and to send the "miniatures" of orders and medals: in the Soviet Union it is not accepted to bear such "miniatures" and them therefore not make.

[desantnik]

This letter does state that miniatures were not made, but how authoritative is this letter?

It is from a publication's editor (colonel) and I'm not trying to be obstinate here, but I know plenty of officers in the US Army (myself included) that are unknowledgeable about their own country's complete heraldry. In their mind, if they've never seen one, it doesn't exist.

How many former Soviet officers that are not collectors know of the existence of the minutiae we collectors know, research, and follow? When Paul McDaniel and I visited the Central Armed Forces Museum, it's possible we weren't talking to their awards expert, but we knew much more than the 3-4 museum staff we met.

I trust Alexei's opinion, acknowledge this letter, and note the burden of proof is mine, but I'm still not entirely convinced or no one has shown otherwise that these are not of Soviet manufacture.

Let's say for some reason it was decided back in the 1950s to wear miniatures, or a small group like the overseas diplomatic community floated an experimental test for a short time, this would explain the general ignorance toward these miniatures.

[Art]

Stupid question: it seems the only true authority would be the Russian mint, correct? as they would know the regulations on wearing such things if allowed to begin with. So, let's ask them...

[Al-muell]

Originally Posted by desantnik

This letter does state that miniatures were not made, but how authoritative is this letter?

It is from a publication's editor (colonel) and I'm not trying to be obstinate here, but I know plenty of officers in the US Army (myself included) that are unknowledgeable about their own country's complete heraldry. In their mind, if they've never seen one, it doesn't exist.

How many former Soviet officers that are not collectors know of the existence of the minutiae we collectors know, research, and follow? When Paul McDaniel and I visited the Central Armed Forces Museum, it's possible we weren't talking to their awards expert, but we knew much more than the 3-4 museum staff we met.

I trust Alexei's opinion, acknowledge this letter, and note the burden of proof is mine, but I'm still not entirely convinced or no one has shown otherwise that these are not of Soviet manufacture.

Let's say for some reason it was decided back in the 1950s to wear miniatures, or a small group like the overseas diplomatic community floated an experimental test for a short time, this would explain the general ignorance toward these miniatures.

Maybe the letter isn't 100% convincing, however, I think taht the colonel from "Voennyi Vestnik" maight have done some research. No proof of this, but the other issue mentioned in the letter (request for graduation badge) had it continuation - I mean there is another letter (not from that editor) on thist topic. It begins with the information, that they have received the letter from "Voennyi Vestnik" on that topic and that the badge will be sent as soon as they receive the data about graduation from the archive.
This at least prooves, that the colonel didn't only limit himself to writting and answer...

Of course i can provide a photograph of this document as well if neccessary.

In addition - I have never seen in any uniform regulations that something like miniatures was ever allowed....