Badge "Petrograd Infantry School Of The RKKA".

[kameli]

I have early Soviet-Russia badge "Graduate of the Finn Red Commander´s Courses".

The Badge is made years 1919-1922 (as far as i know). The badge is 5 x 3,4 centimeters and it is made of silver. There is a silver mark "84 zolotnik" and in the screwback plates words "18.GOC.FABRIKA".

The badge was given to the red finns, who escaped to the Soviet-Russia after the Finland's Civil War 1918. Some of them went to the St. Petersburg International Military School to come red commanders. In the badge there is a Finnish language words: "suom. pun. arm. sotk.". It means in English something like "Finns red army military school".

I like to know more of this badge and its history. I haven´t see many badges and they all have very small serial number: 5, 8, 13 and some have the number at all.

All information are welcome.

In the back of the badge there are three marks:

1. Russia silver mark (used about 1908-1917 and in Soviet Russia until 1922 ) ---> look at picture (scanned from the book, not from the badge).

2. Mark, which is similar as the mark in the picture, but there is not numbers "84".

3. Mark, where is the same Soviet Russia symbol as in badge, not "hammer and sickle", but the one which they used before 1922
--> sorry, I don´t know its name in English.

There is no number on my badge.

The history of my badge: In the years 1918-22 there were so called "Kindred Wars" between Finland and Soviet-Russia. This happened mostly in the Eastern Karelia area. Somewhere there Finnish soldiers got one Red Finn Commander as a prisoner. After they have killed him, one of them took this badge as "a souvenir".


Jussi-Pekka

[kameli]

I found this picture from internet.

The ribbon with the text is missing. According the text in the site: "With the special order of the RKKA it was forbidden to wear this badge with finnish language ribbon so the ribbons were taken apart".

I don't if this true but it seems logical.

Any opinions about that and the picture ?

Regards,
Jussi-Pekka

[Taz]

Originally Posted by kameli

In the back of the badge there are three marks:

1. Russia silver mark (used about 1908-1917 and in Soviet Russia until 1922 ) ---> look at picture (scanned from the book, not from the badge).

2. Mark, which is similar as the mark in the picture, but there is not numbers "84".

3. Mark, where is the same Soviet Russia symbol as in badge, not "hammer and sickle", but the one which they used before 1922
--> sorry, I don´t know its name in english.

There is no number in my badge.

The history of my badge: In the years 1918-22 there were so called "Kindred Wars" between Finland and Soviet-Russia. This happened mostly in the Eastern Karelia area. Somewhere there Finnish soldiers got one Red Finn Commander as a prisoner. After they have killed him, one of them took this badge as "a souvenir".


Jussi-Pekka

Jussi-Pekka,
this is one elusive badge!, I couldn't find anything much on the badge itself so I thought the marks might give some clues.
I found this site with Russian Silver hallmarks if it doesn't help with this badge it might help with other Russian Imperial items in the future. Take a look and see if some of the marks are on your badge.
here is the link:

http://www.silvercollection.it/russi...rhallmark.html


Just as a note, when you look at the badge it has a Rifle, Cannon and Machine Gun which makes me think this is also a general or universal Commanders badge as opposed to one for particular branches of service.

Eddie.

[kameli]

Originally Posted by Taz

Jussi-Pekka,
this is one elusive badge!, I couldn't find anything much on the badge itself so I thought the marks might give some clues.
I found this site with Russian Silver hallmarks if it doesn't help with this badge it might help with other Russian Imperial items in the future. Take a look and see if some of the marks are on your badge.
here is the link:

http://www.silvercollection.it/russi...rhallmark.html

Eddie

Eddie,

a great link!

I looked it but unfortenately I didn't find a mark that suites.

Earlier I have written: "mark, which is similar as the mark in the picture, but there is not numbers "84"." This mark is very small and I looked once again. It is not necessary similar than the head in the silver hallmark. Hard to say...


Then there is a text in the screwback plate: "18.GOC.FABRIKA". Maybe this helps to find more information? Of course it is possible that screwback plate it is not an original one...


Regards,
Jussi-Pekka

[Art]

Kameli,

This looks like your badge. From "The Badges of the Soviet Armed Forces 1917-1991". By V.A. Borisov. You will have to translate the text for us.

[kameli]

Here is the translation (?). I like you to remember that Russian and English are not my mother-tongue, so there might be some :eek: strange translations.

So correct when wrong:

" Infantry school of the Workers and Peasants Red Army in Petrograd

(Finnish unit, RKKA’s Finnish commander course of soviet infantry)

In vertical direction lightly arched laurel crown, which sides are crossed ribbons.
Above red five-pointed star and in the middle it a white medallion where described sickle and hammer.
Part oh the crown is covered by slightly rising white shield where emblem.
In the emblem there are crossed 19th century’s cannons, the body of Maxim-type machine gun and in vertical position standing 1891-model of three-line rifle.
The bottom parts of the shield and the emblem cover red ribbon where two creases and abbreviated Finnish words: “suom./pun./arm./sot.k” (“The Finnish company of the Red Army*s military school”).
Reverse hallmarks: circular cap and ellipse where letter “D” and number “88” and mint mark letters “VD”. Made silver in the 1st factory of the government in Petrograd.
Size 51x54 mm. Attachment with screw. "

So it mostly describes how the badge looks like.

But as far as I understand right the text there are some interested points:

- it says Petrograd (a small city in Carelia), not St. Petersburg
- manufactured by The 1st factory oh the government
- information for the hallmarks
- it says "hammer and sickle" not hammer and plough


One of these badges was in auction last Saturday here in Finland.

For my opinion this Red Commanders badge was an original one (maybe same one that was sold about 10 years ago in other auction). This one had silver hallmarks on reverse but not numbered.


BTW: The price was 560 euros + a buyer's fee 12,2 %.

[Taz]

This one is being offered right now, also described as a badge from the Red Finnish commanders school in Petrograd.

Eddie.

[Nota Bene]

Jussi-Pekka,

How worn is the hallmarks? I have seen recently a very nice aged fake stamped with a very worn genuine hallmark.

Alexei

[kameli]

Originally Posted by Taz

This one is being offered right now, also described as a badge from the Red Finnish commanders school in Petrograd.

Eddie.

Eddie,

Interesting that something happen with these badges.

The text looks a little bit different in the picture your sent.
Is the badge numbered or hallmarked?

Originally Posted by Nota Bene

Jussi-Pekka,

How worn is the hallmarks? I have seen recently a very nice aged fake stamped with a very worn genuine hallmark.

Alexei

Alexei,

The hallmarks are worn in the same way as the whole reverse of the badge. The picture in post #3 is more glittering than the reverse is in fact. I tried to scan it for a detailed picture but I can´t make it good.

I have recently seen some badges without the hallmarks and the reverses of these badges are coloured silver instead "gold" colour (as for example the badge I have). Also these badges had the text left and the enameling is in very good shape. I am very suspicious with these.

The truth is that there can not been much of these badges left because the most of Finnish born red commanders were killed in 1930´s.

It will be interested to know till when these badges were awarded? Any ideas?

Regards,
Jussi-Pekka

[Taz]

Originally Posted by kameli

Eddie,

Interesting that something happen with these badges.

The text looks a little bit different in the picture your sent.
Is the badge numbered or hallmarked?

Regards,
Jussi-Pekka

Jussi-Pekka that is the only pic that was availiable im sorry to say, no reverse pic.

Eddie