Large Fake Group.

Lapa · 10-29-2005, 10:06 PM

Gentlemen,

I'd like to hear opinions on this group of documents to a General Major I recently acquired:

Liberation of Warsaw
Taking of Budapest
Taking of Koeningsberg
Taking of Vienna
Taking of Berlin
Liberation of Prague
Defense of Soviet Arctic
Victory over Germany
Victory over Japan

Reverse of a typical document, close-up of the gerb and of the stamp and signature.

charlet · 10-30-2005, 05:46 AM

now I see them, it reminds me bad things from Ciney, Belgium...would they have got a bunch of blanco documents?

the leningrad raion of Kiev stamp is not uncommon...

***desantnik*** · 10-30-2005, 12:29 PM

The documents are all late-issue award documents. My vote is a forger assembled all these and then to make them all more plausible, he made them and typed "dublikat" to explain away the late-issue documents question. This would explain the late documents, their identical typewriter and signature issuing authority. I don't know what else came with the set, but you have to ask yourself - why would a general (or even retired general) get an entire issuance of medals on the same day? Yes, there could have been a fire and he really needed dupliates and generals get what they want, but it just seems too fishy. Seems like an enterprising, yet slightly lazy forger.

Lapa · 10-30-2005, 01:08 PM

Desantnik,

I was not too worried about the fact that a General could get a complete set of duplicate documents. I was rather concerned by the fact that he seems to have participated in every single Soviet campaign of the war, even if that implied that he had to run from one end of Europe to the other in a matter of weeks.
I have now found some more evidence that points to a serious case of forging real, unissued documents. Have a look at this thread, it seems that our dear General also participated to the Defense of Moscow and Kiev: http://www.soviet-awards.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=4235
He seems to be the Soviet version of John Wayne.

Marc

charlet · 10-30-2005, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charlet

now I see them, it reminds me bad things from Ciney, Belgium...would they have got a bunch of blanco documents?

the leningrad raion of Kiev stamp is not uncommon...

I believe we saw both Marc and I the same type of fake in Ciney; but the paper was by far more flimsy, not authentic cardboard as you said it to me Marc

***desantnik*** · 10-30-2005, 08:35 PM

[QUOTE=Lapa]Desantnik,

I was not too worried about the fact that a General could get a complete set of duplicate documents. I was rather concerned by the fact that he seems to have participated in every single Soviet campaign of the war, even if that implied that he had to run from one end of Europe to the other in a matter of weeks.

I was thinking about that when I couldn't sleep last night. You are right. Prague and Vienna happened about the same time (like your Kiev/Moscow example) and usually when a guy got a Soviet arctic medal, he was there the entire time and didn't get much else.

vatjan · 10-31-2005, 03:51 AM

I've seen his set before on the "Wavre" market in Belgium. This seller always has a lot of bad stuff mixed with a few good items.
Jan

Lapa · 10-31-2005, 11:27 AM

Thank you all for your opinion.
I believe that the documents themselves are genuine, in the sense that they are real, actual award cards. All the entries however are forged.

Marc

Lauri · 11-01-2005, 01:41 AM

Hi,

documents are real, entries are fake. Like someone already asked this logical question -it's way too many liberation and campaign medals to one
person...
Some year ago i bought very cheaply lot of late original documents some with fake entries, some are empty. My documents are stamped with stamp- Archive of defense ministry and almost all of them have stamp- duplicate.

:)

10-30-2005, 05:46 AM	#2
charlet Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Germany Age: 49 Posts: 791	now I see them, it reminds me bad things from Ciney, Belgium...would they have got a bunch of blanco documents? the leningrad raion of Kiev stamp is not uncommon... __________________ Sebastien "a spectre haunts Europe, the spectre of communism" (a well-known german bearbed)

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10-30-2005, 12:29 PM	#3
*desantnik* Forum Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Eurasia Posts: 2,339	The documents are all late-issue award documents. My vote is a forger assembled all these and then to make them all more plausible, he made them and typed "dublikat" to explain away the late-issue documents question. This would explain the late documents, their identical typewriter and signature issuing authority. I don't know what else came with the set, but you have to ask yourself - why would a general (or even retired general) get an entire issuance of medals on the same day? Yes, there could have been a fire and he really needed dupliates and generals get what they want, but it just seems too fishy. Seems like an enterprising, yet slightly lazy forger.

10-30-2005, 01:08 PM	#4
Lapa Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: St Petersburg, Russia Age: 63 Posts: 2,397	Desantnik, I was not too worried about the fact that a General could get a complete set of duplicate documents. I was rather concerned by the fact that he seems to have participated in every single Soviet campaign of the war, even if that implied that he had to run from one end of Europe to the other in a matter of weeks. I have now found some more evidence that points to a serious case of forging real, unissued documents. Have a look at this thread, it seems that our dear General also participated to the Defense of Moscow and Kiev: http://www.soviet-awards.com/forum/s...ead.php?t=4235 He seems to be the Soviet version of John Wayne. Marc

10-30-2005, 08:35 PM	#6
*desantnik* Forum Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Eurasia Posts: 2,339	[QUOTE=Lapa]Desantnik, I was not too worried about the fact that a General could get a complete set of duplicate documents. I was rather concerned by the fact that he seems to have participated in every single Soviet campaign of the war, even if that implied that he had to run from one end of Europe to the other in a matter of weeks. I was thinking about that when I couldn't sleep last night. You are right. Prague and Vienna happened about the same time (like your Kiev/Moscow example) and usually when a guy got a Soviet arctic medal, he was there the entire time and didn't get much else.

10-31-2005, 03:51 AM	#7
vatjan Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: brussels, Belgium Age: 55 Posts: 131	I've seen his set before on the "Wavre" market in Belgium. This seller always has a lot of bad stuff mixed with a few good items. Jan

10-31-2005, 11:27 AM	#8
Lapa Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: St Petersburg, Russia Age: 63 Posts: 2,397	Thank you all for your opinion. I believe that the documents themselves are genuine, in the sense that they are real, actual award cards. All the entries however are forged. Marc

11-01-2005, 01:41 AM	#9
Lauri Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Tallinn- Estonia Age: 49 Posts: 99	Hi, documents are real, entries are fake. Like someone already asked this logical question -it's way too many liberation and campaign medals to one person... Some year ago i bought very cheaply lot of late original documents some with fake entries, some are empty. My documents are stamped with stamp- Archive of defense ministry and almost all of them have stamp- duplicate. :)

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