Halhingol Battle Commemorative Badge.

[Alfred]

I think the Halhingol badge is made out of brass, but it is silver plated. Here is
a picture of another badge.
You can see the still the silver plating and the brass under the silver.

regards
Andreas

[dannybou]

Alfred, can you post the scan of the nut that we can partially see? Thanks

Paul I see what you mean about the neon colors, I assume you mean near the bottom of the word Halhingol? It is a scanning effect.

[desantnik]

As I mentioned in the PM, I base my call on having handled more than 25 Halhingol badges. I have NEVER seen a large style Monetnii Dvor nut on either a Halhingol or any other badge that I can think of, excepting suspension medals and orders. The screwposts and nuts have either been excessively small for such a big badge about the size of a US dime to the size of a US quarter. I can't remember seeing a screwpost of sufficient diameter to accompany your pictured Monetnii Dvor nut. As to the silver reverse, I have only seen the "mirror" reverse, partially mirrored reverse, or the smooth background as in your type. All have been bronze, but maybe the silver wash was removed. As to the colors of the enamel, maybe it's the scanner or some other color transferrance problem.

Has anyone else seen a Halhingol, or for my further education, ANY 1930-1950period badge with this large Monetnii Dvor nut?

[Dolf]

Danny,

PM sent.

I entirely subscribe what Paul says!
When I saw it yesterday my immediate verdict was FAKE, but I was simply too tired for making scans of my own Halhingol Badges, and I also didn't want to spoil your joy, sorry buddy :(

I confirm I never saw a REAL Halhingol Badge with those neon colors, specially that yellow ( :nono ), and I also never saw one with such screwnut!

So, just for you to compare, I'm posting pics of both my Halhingol Badges, a mirror-reverse type and a flat-reverse type.
As you can see, the screwnuts, as Paul points out before are really small.
Mine are exactly the kind of screwnuts for each different type of the Badge, as they were different but about the same size, as it can be confirmed on Dr. Battushig's book.

Sorry if this is spoiling your wife's gift, but after all the truth is always better, no matter how it hurts.

Here are a couple of pics of my own mirror-reverse Halhingol Badge:

Dolf

[Dolf]

And also a couple of pics of my flat-reverse Halhingol Badge:

Jan,

I'm not sure if you posted somewhere a detailed pic of your fake Halhingol Badge.

Can you please point us in the right direction if you posted it already, or if you didn't post any pic of it, can you please post one here, for helping Danny distinguish a real one from a fake?

Thanks,

Dolf

[vatjan]

Hi guys,
Although the yellow neon circular border does indeed look very flashy, I for one, am not convinced that it is a fake.
The colour of the horseman is the colour of the bronze that comes through when the silver finish is polished off, by too much cleaning. This is normal.
The silver back is good, these badges were entirely silverplated, but most have lost the silver finish over the years, this one didn't. Mine did not either.
Remember that these type 2 are usually easier to find in good condition that type 1's.
The screwplate is indeed wrong, but so are most of the mongolian screwplates, you lose one, you just put on another that fits (more or less).
The overall detail looks good to me.
The only thing concerning me is the yellow neon border, is this also a scanning effect, or is it really that flashy.

Just my 2 cents
Jan

[Dolf]

Originally Posted by vatjan

Hi guys,
Although the yellow neon circular border does indeed look very flashy, I for one, am not convinced that it is a fake.
.......................................................................................................
The only thing concerning me is the yellow neon border, is this also a scanning effect, or is it really that flashy.

Just my 2 cents
Jan

Jan,

That's exactly for that yellow neon border that my instantly reaction when I saw it for the 1st time was: FAKE!
But one can never be 100% sure from just one pic, so for the rest of the Badge there are some more details I don't like, but I don't know if these are scan effects or not!
As for the yellow neon border, either it was repainted or if there were no other damages it would need to have been kept on a safe on a Swiss bank since it was produced to have that look I guess!... And I'm even not sure if originally they had that look!

Can you please post a pic of yours that you know to be a fake?

Dolf

[vatjan]

Danny, could you make a photo of the badge, using sunlight or at least daylight as a light source. Scanner colours can be very quirky. Also maybe some close ups of the horseman.

Now, I have not handled very many of these badges, although I have seen many, many pictures, and I own both types. And this badge very much resembles the one I have, except for the neon colours. This being said, mine might be a fake aswell. If so these are very high end fakes, and nothing compared compared to the fakes known sofar (see attachments)

One might say there is a lack of detail in the horse's tail, but for the rest this badge has a fair amount of detail.

I honestly don't know either way :(

Maybe some other pix might tell us more

Jan

[vatjan]

Dolf,
Could you give some further explanations as to which other detail you don't like. I may be missing something
Jan

[Dolf]

Originally Posted by vatjan

Hi guys,

The colour of the horseman is the colour of the bronze that comes through when the silver finish is polished off, by too much cleaning. This is normal.
The silver back is good, these badges were entirely silverplated, but most have lost the silver finish over the years, this one didn't. Mine did not either.
Remember that these type 2 are usually easier to find in good condition that type 1's.
The screwplate is indeed wrong, but so are most of the mongolian screwplates, you lose one, you just put on another that fits (more or less).
The overall detail looks good to me.

Just my 2 cents
Jan

Jan,

Reading again Paul's Post #3 + what you say here, I do agree that indeed the colors of the horse and man can vary, as it is visible on my own Badges.
I didn't know that originally the back of these Badges was silverplated! That explains some color variations on some pieces I've seen here and there.
As for the screwnut, no need to say more about that as it's definetely not the right screwnut for this Badge.

So what made me initially think it was a fake was indeed that yellow neon circular border, but after carefully reading your Post I do agree with you that this piece might not be entirely fake, but rather an original piece that was partially repainted, with a wrong screwnut.

Thanks for your help on this,

Originally Posted by vatjan

Dolf,
Could you give some further explanations as to which other detail you don't like. I may be missing something
Jan

Jan,

After your clarifications concerning some details I guess my initial overall verdict was wrong, but I still don't like the enamel of the bottom red banner!
I don't know, maybe just a scan effect, but it seems someone messed up with the original thing!
Also, on the reverse, is it just a scratch, or is there a "7" ?
As these Badges are not serial numbered, it looked suspicious to me.

Just to add to what I said before, I confirm that the reverse of my flat-reverse type is very much silver color, even if not clearly visible on the pic I posted.

Just my 2 cents.

Originally Posted by vatjan

........................................................................................................
And this badge very much resembles the one I have, except for the neon colours. This being said, mine might be a fake aswell. If so these are very high end fakes, and nothing compared compared to the fakes known sofar (see attachments)

One might say there is a lack of detail in the horse's tail, but for the rest this badge has a fair amount of detail.

I honestly don't know either way :(

Maybe some other pix might tell us more

Jan

Jan,

I'm confused! :confused:

Are both pics you post of the same piece?!

Anyway, there is one thing on both pics that is far different from my own Badges and from every pics of original pieces I've seen, and that is the top of the stick that holds the August 1939 red banner!

I'll try to mark the area I'm talking about with Photoshop and post it later.

Dolf