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Miscellaneous Questions Anything else that doesn't fit into the Fake Alert Titles, Orders, Medals, or Documents sub-forums should be posted here.

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Old 02-01-2006, 09:47 PM   #1
Dolf
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Deals Gone Bad - Share Your Story

Quote:
Originally Posted by matteti
Just to update my fellow collectors friends, the result of the test is..... gold-plated silver star. :rant: :hurl :cry:

I simply cannot believe it. I am so frustrated, angry, mad and desperate!!!

I see from what I've just read on another thread that you weren't able to get a refund on this piece!
There is a similar situation mentioned on the W-A Forum, another collector has also been deceived by this same bad dealer and the negotiations don't seem to come to an end, or at least to a satisfying one!

Can you please let us know what are his arguments for not refunding your money?

What a shame!!! :angerr :thumbsdown

Dolf

Last edited by CtahhR; 09-21-2012 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 02-02-2006, 12:12 PM   #2
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Ok, I will try to make a long story short, but bare with me, it's not easy.
Also, I didn't organize yet all the "case".. I have so many material (emails, personal notes, scans, etc..)

At end of June 2005, I ordered:
- 1 Order of Friendship (230$)
- 1 Order of Mother Heroine (125$)
From that dealer. Because my favorite dealer was away for the summer and sold-out anyway.

I took care not to buy from E! or "un-reputed" seller, so I choose this person.

I never received the items. Seller asked me to wait and wait because items "could be delayed by Canadian customs".. I waited as he recommended. I am saving you the details about all the emails that were sent...

Around mid-September, seller finally admitted that "items got lost in mail" and accepted to exchange the items to me or reimburse me.

Since I paid with Money Order in US dollar which is complex to get and expensive and since I didn't want to be reimbursed in US dollars because I would need again to lose money to exchange it back and also because I still wanted to get those awards, I asked for an exchange.

He sent me a USPS declaration form where I had to declare I never received the items and to sign. I did so and sent back to him.

In the mean time, he told me he didn't have other order of Friendship available. So, I had to choose something else or to be reimbursed the 230$. Again, I was not interested in reimbursement (though I should have).

Therefore, I chose to get (for same value on his site):
- Order of Mother Heroine (125$)
- Bravery T1V3 (195$)
- Combat Service (17$)
- Capture of Berlin (18$)

In October, I received the package with those medals, but as soon as I opened it, I saw that the gold star on the Mother Hero was not legit.

I posted on the forum in this thread.

Apparence of the medal at that date can be seen here:
http://www.soviet-awards.com/forum/a...7&d=1129308005

I was very frustrated and disappointed to see this. Buying from an "Expert", I thought I shouldn't have to worry about authenticity of my items. So, the next day, I went to my local jeweller for gold test. I had already been to him to test an Order of Lenin (testing the gold and the platinum) and was very satisfied by the service.

Even though I never had problem with testing gold, I asked the jeweller whether the award will be broken or altered in any way if it is not made of gold. He told me that we won't see anything or trace from the test. The jeweller did the test and confirmed my doubt. He told me it was made of gold-plated silver. He gave me back the award and the next day, I decided to ship back the Mother Hero as well as the Bravery Medal (which I never really wanted, but ordered because of the previous problem).

I did the packaging myself and I can ensure everybody that the Order of Mother Hero was in the exact same condition as when received by me 2 days earlier. There was no big scratch on it.

Package was well wrapped to protect the awards and I decided to send by registered mail because I was starting to lose confidence in that seller.

Few days later, seller received package and signed for it.
He then emailed me telling me that he won't be able to reimburse me because I had barbarously destroyed the item. He even included scans of the gold star which you can see in attachment here. See the two huge scratches on the bottom rays.

I emailed him back telling him I was not going to play that game. I had been honest and of good faith from the beginning until now and he had not. I tried few times to repeat to him that order was not shipped to him in the state shown on the picture. But he didn't want to hear anything. I even called him by phone trying to resolve this. He was not cooperative at all and he was just telling me that if it had not been done by me, it had been done by my jeweller. He told me that there was "no other way to determine if it was gold than to make those huge scratches and that it was what has happened."

I tried to repeat it was not this, but it was a one way conversation.

I gave him many deadlines which he always refused. He started to be slightly more cooperative when I was speaking about how much it can hurt his business compares to what I have to lose in this. I already lost my money. I know he is not going to pay me back, so what can I lose?

Recently, he emailed me again (but I already told him I was not going to reply to any of his emails. I have been more patient than anybody could be) and was asking that I do like he did. He wanted me to file a claim at my postal service stating that the items "was destroyed in transit."

This is totally false and I am not going to do so. It would be a false declaration, a criminal act. My father is a Police detective and I know about this.

His story is always changing and he is always proposing something different to "resolve" this. But in fact, he just hopes to get more time and that I will get tired of this and will give up. But I am not. I am very very hard-headed. If the Russians are hard-headed, they haven't heard of the Quebecois.

I know that legally, it would be extremely difficult to force him to pay me back because he is in the US and I am in Canada. Also, it would cost much more than the money that was lost.

Still, I am preparing something... I will only stop the day I feel justice was obtained.

NOTE: The attached picture was sent by the seller and he claims this is the state in which he received it from me.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg orderMH.jpg (48.5 KB, 89 views)

Last edited by matteti; 09-20-2012 at 04:10 PM.
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Old 02-02-2006, 12:21 PM   #3
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Another example of fine customer service many of us dealt with! :banghead
:angerr :angerr :angerr
I'm sorry for the hassle you're going through and hope this gets resolved to your satisfaction.

Rusty.
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Old 02-02-2006, 12:24 PM   #4
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Dealer is missing the point. The star is gold plated. Therefore worthless. It does not matter it was damaged or not and by whom. It is a fake and therefore owes you the money an apoligy.



Quote:
Originally Posted by matteti
I took care not to buy from E! or "un-reputed" seller, so I choose this person.

Around mid-September, seller finally admitted that "items got lost in mail" and accepted to exchange the items to me or reimburse me.


In October, I received the package with those medals, but as soon as I opened it, I saw that the gold star on the Mother Hero was not legit.


I did the packaging myself and I can ensure everybody that the Order of Mother Hero was in the exact same condition as when received by me 2 days earlier. There was no big scratch on it.

Package was well wrapped to protect the awards and I decided to send by registered mail because I was starting to lose confidence in that seller.

Few days later, seller received package and signed for it.
He then emailed me telling me that he won't be able to reimburse me because I had barbarously destroyed the item. He even included scans of the gold star which you can see in attachment here. See the two huge scratches on the bottom rays.

I emailed him back telling him I was not going to play that game. I had been honest and of good faith from the beginning until now and he had not. I tried few times to repeat to him that order was not shipped to him in the state shown on the picture. But he didn't want to hear anything. I even called him by phone trying to resolve this. He was not cooperative at all and he was just telling me that if it had not been done by me, it had been done by my jeweller. He told me that there was "no other way to determine if it was gold than to make those huge scratches and that it was what has happened."


NOTE: The attached picture was sent by the seller and he claims this is the state in which he received it from me.
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Old 02-02-2006, 12:43 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rboomsma
Dealer is missing the point. The star is gold plated. Therefore worthless. It does not matter it was damaged or not and by whom. It is a fake and therefore owes you the money an apoligy.
Ron,

Very good point here! :thumbsup
Indeed, if damaged or not damaged, that's not at all the point, as it was a fake from the beginning, if the star was not solid gold as it should be!

Dolf
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Old 02-02-2006, 12:44 PM   #6
HuliganRS
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I know what you mean!

He refers to me as Mr. Rusty :rant: He and I have not seen eye to eye ever since he tried to pass a OGPWII on suspension to one of my friends! as real when he was at a show in town. We were new and stupid and paid him with a chech and took the order home. Who would have though that you have to bring the McDamiel book with you to purchase from a reputable dealer at that time!!!
Once we got it home and compared it to what's in the book, it was a total POS
We even went as far as calling Alexei at his home on the weekend and wasting an hour of his time to make sure it was not our newbie ignorance!

When we took that order back he called us names and told us we were stupid because this was a rare and undocumented variation! RIGHT! my friend got his check back since he had no time to cash it!

Then there was this whole OMSA thing I attended... that one is in a thread here somewhere...

Makes my blood boil! :angerr

I agree with what Ron said! A FAKE IS A FAKE! What is he going to do? re-sell it????

Rusty.
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Old 02-02-2006, 01:09 PM   #7
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Matteti--were the items shipped via United States Postal Service both times? And when he asked you to sign a false declaration re:the items being destroyed in the mail, was that with regard to the USPS too? If so, I believe that that would constitute the federal crime of mail fraud, which can cause someone to go to federal prison, which is not a fun place. I imagine that the US Attorney for the Eastern District of NY would not look approvingly upon such acts.

What do you want at this point--your money back?
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Old 02-02-2006, 01:17 PM   #8
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Please let me know who the seller is. I do not want to do any business with that man.:angerr
I hope You will get Your money back sooner or later.

/Erik
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Old 02-02-2006, 01:20 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nack
Matteti--were the items shipped via United States Postal Service both times? And when he asked you to sign a false declaration re:the items being destroyed in the mail, was that with regard to the USPS too? If so, I believe that that would constitute the federal crime of mail fraud, which can cause someone to go to federal prison, which is not a fun place. I imagine that the US Attorney for the Eastern District of NY would not look approvingly upon such acts.

What do you want at this point--your money back?
Hello Nack,

Yes, the only thing I want is my money back. I am not even considering the "damages". I needed to pay some money to ship registered mail to him, to call him and us exchange rate has decreased considerably since then (at least 15-20%) + I needed to turned back somewhere else to purchase a real Order of Mother Hero and had to pay the current market price at that time which was more than 100$ extra, but at least, it's a real one.

The items were shipped via USPS from him to me twice:
1st time in summer when package was apparently lost... He then filed a claim for lost package which I signed because I never received it. I then mailed back to him that declaration and he submitted it to USPS.

2nd time, when he shipped the fake Mother Hero.

For my parts, living in Canada, I shipped back to him via Post Canada the fake Order of Mother Hero. And the only solution he is proposing to me now is that "I do like he did" and file a claim to my Post Canada for damaged item in transit.

-------------
Here is his last email about this:

Quote:
As I already wrote you - it is your duty now to make a claim at Canadian Postal Authorities for delivering medal to me in damaged condition. They shall reimburse you the insured value, etc.

It shall be claim, similar to one I filled, sent to you and which you signed and returned.

I do not know why you make terms here.

It is in our best interest to proceed by the book of Law. The transaction in dispute is under the Terms of Sale of my site. It is also under rules and regulations of mail order business of both US and Canada.

Item failed to returned in the same condition it was mailed. It is also supported by the statement you made, that it had no problems when you received it, when you submitted to jeweler, who performed a gold test on it and importantly at the time you sealed the package mailing it back to me.

So, according to your own statements, damage may occurred in transit only. There is only one party responsible for claim - one who initiated the shipment, which was you.

I already consulted postal service here to double check the rules of Law. They confirmed the same - only you could file the claim.

I am willing to sign any/all necessary documents stating the truth.

Star is also here aside till we decide what to do next

P.S. I would gladly correspond more and more about this. But it is what US Law, US Postal Regulations and representatives at US Postal Service says.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeti
Please let me know who the seller is. I do not want to do any business with that man.:angerr
I hope You will get Your money back sooner or later.

/Erik
Eric, we cannot post name here, but be ensured this person is not a fellow member of the forum (if he is, it would be under a hidden alias just to spy on us).

If you want to see who he is, simply go to Google main page and type the words "soviet coins & medals" exactly as shown here and then click the "I'M FEELING LUCKY!" button. You will not be so lucky, but you will be sent to his website.

Last edited by CtahhR; 06-17-2014 at 12:21 PM.
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Old 02-02-2006, 01:32 PM   #10
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So you want your $355 back?
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