Citations.

[Brian]

After looking through numerous citations that I have for some of my WWII groupings, I started to create a large spreadsheet to compile all of the relevent details for each award (citation date, award date, actions awarded award for, my purchase information, etc.). I decided to keep track of what award the person was originally recommended for in the citation and if the recommendation changed as it went up the command chain.

I found it quite interesting that most all of the awards that I found that were different then those that were in the original citation were orignally put in for a Red Star (about 80%). I have examples of them being changed to OGPW's, Red Banners, Medals for Valor, Medals for Military Merit.

Now I don't have enough citations that were changed to confirm that most awards were changed from Red Stars, so I was wondering if other people had noticed this same trend. If most changed awards were changed from Red Stars is the reason mainly that the Red Star was given out in such quantity during the war. Or is it perhaps that it could be awarded for such a wide variety of actions that it was often recommended and higher ranking people would change it to a more narrowly defined award.

Anyway, I was just curious as to what other people have seen and to what may be the theories as to why that most "changed" awards started out as an Order of the Red Star.

Brian

[yolkin]

Brian,

Order of the Red Star was one of the higher orders with which the commanders of smaller units could award soldiers without having to obtain special permissions from the brass above. In other words awarding a Red Star was prestigious enough, yet more or less hassle-free.

I *think* that one of the reasons why the awards were changed was because either the heroic act was "not heroic enough" for an Order of Red Star and therefore was downgraded to a medal, or the opposite, the act superceeded the requirements for the Red Star and may have made the soldier eligible for an OGPW or even a Red Banner.

Also, there have always been accounts of "unpopular" soldiers getting their awards downgraded for any number of reasons (non-Party member, ethnicity, unfavorable relationship with superiors, etc.)

Eric

[otlichnik]

Great info, both of you.

What about some other possible reasons for a change or substitution? What about simple supply problem? "Red Star would be nice but all we have is XXX."

Also, I wonder, during the war, how conscious commanders were of all the award options out there? After the Red Banner, Order of Lenin and HSU the Red Star must have been one of the best know. Especially as Eric says when it is "easy" to give. I could imagine many commanders not knowing much about other options.

Shawn

[Brian]

Thanks guys,

You have presented several ideas that I hadn't considered. I am planning on having a couple of more groups researched which will give me a new batch of citations to check.

Brian

[Ed Maier]

This is a very interesting thread. I wish I knew more as to why this happens but it does happen a lot. In reading the citations I have researched it would appear that 25 to 30% of all award citations are changed from there original awards. The greatest adjustment I have seen was for a Medal "For Valor" changed to an Order of the Red Banner in 1944.

One possible explination for this that has not been mentioned is the influx of new awards in 1943-1944 and the changed criteria for awarding these awards. Almost overnight, the Red Star goes from being a high award to a low award. Perhaps this lag time in understanding how to recommend for the awards could be a possibility.

Hope this helps,
Ed

[Bryan]

Two of my researched Order of Glory 3rd classes were changed on the recommendation from Red Stars, one to a Senior Sergeant and one to a Corporal. Both were for actions in late 1944.

Bryan

[UQWozza]

I was going back through the papers of some researched awards that I bought recently. I wondered if someone could help with the following bits that I am having difficulty with:

1. BM - GOVOR
   Section 6 seems to literally transalte as "Birthplace: red village, Sumy oblast, Ismanskiy Rayon". Is this correct?
   Section 12 What does the circled word mean?
   Section 13 What does the circled phrase refer to ?
   
   
2. CSM - AITEMBETOV
   
   Does his duty position roughly translate as "Squad leader 8th Rifle Company"?
   
   I have so far translated this as "On 18.1.45 during combat for the village of Shcheperno, by his personal example, courage and bravery ?????? fire ??????? attack. Killed that German.
   
   Could someone please tell me what the rest is.

Thanks for any help.

Simon

[Kirchgoens]

Section 6: you appear to basically have it correct: Sumskaya Oblast, Imanskiy Region, Red Village.

Section 12: I think he was a city firefighter before the war, at least that's how my weak language skills translate it.

Section 13: I'm guessing that's a block or town/city sub-district number tied to his home address since the final phrase appears to be an actual building/house number.



...Brian

[Kirchgoens]

I think your first missing phrase is basically "...under heavy enemy fire...", and your second phrase might be something like "...picked up personally the effectives of the squad in the attack."

So... I guess my bad and idiomatic translation would be something like this:

"On 18 January 1945 in combat around the village of Sheperno, by his personal example, fearlessness, and bravery under heavy enemy fire, he led his own unit in the attack, killing one German."

Keep in mind the caveat that my Russian sucks, so I could easily miss the real meaning. Still, this is a good chance for me to exercise my aging brain and attempt to not lose what little Russian I have. Oh, and dictionaries help. ;)

Now I'm waiting for the real Russian speakers to see how well or badly I've done.

...Brian

P.S. - this guy has a name that sounds Central Asian. What did the award card say about his nationality?

[UQWozza]

Hi Brian,

Thanks for having a go at the translations. I am still trying to learn Russian, thus my translations via a dictionary and Babelfish tend to be litteral, often missing the nuances that native Russians and people like Paul Schmitt pick up on.

The document is from a group I got from Paul earlier this year that came with some research.

Sergeant Sabur AITEMBETOV

Born 1913, Uzbek, candidate party member, inducted by Lenin Regional Military Commissariat, Turkmen SSR.

Home address: Voroshilov Collective Farm, Kipchanskii Rayon, Kalmik ASSR.

Wife: Khalima Aitembetova.

Awards:

Combat Service Medal (#1.745.707) by 2?? (probably 224th) Rifle Regiment dated 20.01.45.
Red Star (#2.700.793) by 416th Artillery Brigade dated 05.08.45.
Red Star (#2.700.791) by 265th Rifle Division dated 06.10.45.
Victory over Germany Medal by Edict dated 09.05.45.
Valorous Labor in the GPW Medal by Edict dated 06.06.45.

Citation for ORS #2.700.791

Sergeant Aitembetov has been in the Red Army since October 1943. From September 1944 until 9 May 1945 he participated in offensive operations against the German invaders as a rifle squad leader. He displayed courage and bravery in combat. At Narva his squad occupied an enemy trench line and Aitembetov personally killed seven German soldiers and thus, a battlefield promotion to the rank of Sergeant. He received one wound in combat. Comrade Aitembetov‘s squad was one of the first to cross the border into East Prussia and successfully repelled all enemy counterattacks. He is deserving of the Order of the Red Star.

Simon

P.S. I am waiting for the citation for the other ORS. I have both of the ORSs but the CSM is missing. Maybe one day.........