Suspensions, Ribbons, Ribbon Bars And Order Of Precedence. - Page 3

Christophe · 07-17-2003, 05:22 PM

Dave,

Thanks for your answer !!
Do you mean that :
* it could be a real soviet bar, but made with an E.German backing cloth (because the soviet owner was located in DDR),
or
* it is a special "artificial" - somewhere fantasy or fake - bar made in E.Germany ?

Ch.

BTW, I have bought this bar this month in Berlin... What you wrote worries me... :confused:

Dave · 07-17-2003, 05:34 PM

Chris-

Do you have a larger pic of the front?

--Dave

Christophe · 07-17-2003, 05:44 PM

Better ?

Ch.

sovvisor · 07-18-2003, 03:59 AM

I don´t think you have to worry at all. It could have been made just as you mensioned in Germany during soviet rule. It´s rare that forgers put the job in to find out what order the ribbons should be put in. I have seen lots of diffrent backings and this one just adds som interest to the story about it!
Best

charlet · 07-18-2003, 04:27 PM

Hi Dave, I'm surprized with the color used on DDR uniforms...on my screen the backing cloth appears common soviet wave green, what uniform are you thinking of? I don't think I'm the best in DDR uniforms so bring me some little light!

the ribbon bar make me think to an officer who would have started his career in the 50', early enough to gather a captain or starchii leitenant in 1958 to be granted the jubilee medal. Then he earned the common jubilee and complete service med, the red star for military merit and the motherland 3rd class as a top of his career (colonel or general-maior?). He seems have closed his career before 1988 (motherland earned in the 80'?).
It is curious he doesn't have the veteran of vs medal, and he has the 20 years victory...
Doug, Dave, a participant to the WW2 was nearly always decerned the victory over germany med? if not could he merit 20 years later the 20 y jubilee med?

sebastien

Dave · 07-18-2003, 05:37 PM

Marc-

I'm no expert on E. German uniforms, but the color does look like at least the WW2 German uniform color, and as I recall, some of the early E. German uniforms carried on that color. I could be way off, but that's what I've heard (my girlfriend told me...) :D

God forbid that the officer may have simply gotten some spare cloth from a fabric store... ;)

In regard to the medals, the regulations changed for the 1975 awarding, in the fact that in 1965, all serving military members were awarded the medal, and in 1975 and 1985, only the veterans were awarded them.

--Dave

Christophe · 07-19-2003, 04:03 AM

Dave, Charlet, Sovvisor and all the experts,

Many thanks for your inputs and comments... It is always fantastic to see how you manage to give life (again) to a simple "historical" object...

One more time, "bravo".

Ch.

vikingraider1 · 08-25-2003, 02:53 AM

If this ribbon bar is genuine I don't think that this person served during WWII. There is no victory over Germany ribbon there.

Market Garden · 11-16-2003, 10:52 AM

I’m not sure if I identified these ribbons correctly but if I did I would assume this is a fabricated bar due to the randomness of the ribbons. Can someone please review for correctness? I picked this up at the Great Western Show in Dallas, Texas last weekend for $12.00. Both the ribbons and backing are new.

1. Order of Red Banner
2. Order of Patriotic War 1st Class
3. Medal for Valor
4. Medal for Combat Service
5. Capture of Berlin
6. ???
7. Defense of Kiev
8. Defense of Odessa
9. Capture of Koenigsberg
10. Defense of Leningrad
11. Liberation of Prague

I have another bar too that I will post later after I try to figure out what ribbons are on it. I think they are labor awards and I am having a difficult time trying to identify.

John

Bazanov · 11-16-2003, 11:27 AM

I would like to say that no6 is liberation of warshawa and the one you think is defense of leningrad i would say that it is for the defense of Sevastopol or the partisan 2:class.
But to the ribbon:
I think that there are to much space between the medal stripes r what i should call it...
I also think that the medals are in the wrong order but im not shore.
The position of the "partisan" medal would indicate that there is the sevastopol medal.

I leave this to a more experienced collector

View Poll Results: From what era, shall we say, did this bar originate in?
1942-1944	0	0%
1945-1991	8	80.00%
1991-2010	2	20.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 10. You may not vote on this poll

07-18-2003, 03:59 AM	#4
sovvisor Bearer of the Red Star Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Uppsala Swden Age: 49 Posts: 229	don´t worry I don´t think you have to worry at all. It could have been made just as you mensioned in Germany during soviet rule. It´s rare that forgers put the job in to find out what order the ribbons should be put in. I have seen lots of diffrent backings and this one just adds som interest to the story about it! Best __________________ sovvisor

07-18-2003, 04:27 PM	#5
charlet Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Germany Age: 49 Posts: 791	Hi Dave, I'm surprized with the color used on DDR uniforms...on my screen the backing cloth appears common soviet wave green, what uniform are you thinking of? I don't think I'm the best in DDR uniforms so bring me some little light! the ribbon bar make me think to an officer who would have started his career in the 50', early enough to gather a captain or starchii leitenant in 1958 to be granted the jubilee medal. Then he earned the common jubilee and complete service med, the red star for military merit and the motherland 3rd class as a top of his career (colonel or general-maior?). He seems have closed his career before 1988 (motherland earned in the 80'?). It is curious he doesn't have the veteran of vs medal, and he has the 20 years victory... Doug, Dave, a participant to the WW2 was nearly always decerned the victory over germany med? if not could he merit 20 years later the 20 y jubilee med? sebastien __________________ Sebastien "a spectre haunts Europe, the spectre of communism" (a well-known german bearbed)

07-19-2003, 04:03 AM	#7
Christophe Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Paris - Berlin Age: 61 Posts: 1,208	Thanks and Bravo Dave, Charlet, Sovvisor and all the experts, Many thanks for your inputs and comments... It is always fantastic to see how you manage to give life (again) to a simple "historical" object... One more time, "bravo". Ch.

08-25-2003, 02:53 AM	#8
vikingraider1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: London, Home of West Ham United Age: 54 Posts: 328	If this ribbon bar is genuine I don't think that this person served during WWII. There is no victory over Germany ribbon there. __________________ "We can truly say that the whole circuit of the earth is girdled with the graves of our dead... and, in the course of my pilgrimage, I have many times asked myself whether there can be more potent advocates of peace upon earth through the years to come, than this massed multitude of silent witnesses to the desolation of war." King George V, Flanders, 1922

07-17-2003, 05:22 PM	#1
Christophe Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Paris - Berlin Age: 61 Posts: 1,208	Dave, Thanks for your answer !! Do you mean that : * it could be a real soviet bar, but made with an E.German backing cloth (because the soviet owner was located in DDR), or * it is a special "artificial" - somewhere fantasy or fake - bar made in E.Germany ? Ch. BTW, I have bought this bar this month in Berlin... What you wrote worries me... :confused:

07-17-2003, 05:34 PM	#2
Dave Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: California Age: 49 Posts: 700	Chris- Do you have a larger pic of the front? --Dave

07-18-2003, 05:37 PM	#6
Dave Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: California Age: 49 Posts: 700	Marc- I'm no expert on E. German uniforms, but the color does look like at least the WW2 German uniform color, and as I recall, some of the early E. German uniforms carried on that color. I could be way off, but that's what I've heard (my girlfriend told me...) :D God forbid that the officer may have simply gotten some spare cloth from a fabric store... ;) In regard to the medals, the regulations changed for the 1975 awarding, in the fact that in 1965, all serving military members were awarded the medal, and in 1975 and 1985, only the veterans were awarded them. --Dave

11-16-2003, 11:27 AM	#10
Bazanov Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Age: 37 Posts: 84	I would like to say that no6 is liberation of warshawa and the one you think is defense of leningrad i would say that it is for the defense of Sevastopol or the partisan 2:class. But to the ribbon: I think that there are to much space between the medal stripes r what i should call it... I also think that the medals are in the wrong order but im not shore. The position of the "partisan" medal would indicate that there is the sevastopol medal. I leave this to a more experienced collector __________________ /Fredrik

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