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Old 05-04-2003, 11:15 AM   #1
DougD
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Colonel General Ludnikov

Nice 1950's tunic for Colonel General Ludnikov. Had his ID book in pocket too, nice little bonus. He was a HSU and had 4 Suvorovs!

1950's uniforms are undervalued, they tend to have WwIi quality and yet are lumped into the overbroad category of "postwar" and equate with 1980's stuff. I hope in the future that 1950's stuff forms a category of its own.

DD
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Old 05-04-2003, 12:49 PM   #2
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Doug, surely he would not have worn medalribbons on his parade uniform> Service uniform yes but parade? I don't think so???
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Old 05-04-2003, 04:40 PM   #3
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Ahh, helping the rookie....

...no problem; your assertion - not quite true.

In the 1950's, until about 1962 or 1963 the parade uniform had a job as semiformal parade too (i.e. holiday dress), in place of the grey double breasted uniform that would replace it. In such a function it was worn without the gold belt and WITH ribbons (90% of the time they would simply have different tunics, but not always).

I used to have a nice original photo of a general handing out awards dressed like this, but am not sure what happened to it.

I must admit that years ago when i saw the first one like this I too thought it must be a vet or something who had added ribbons to a full parade uniform. After researching and dealing with multiple examples, I know otherwise.

So, don't assume, ask.

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Old 05-04-2003, 04:49 PM   #4
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Service uniform

A bit later, say mid 1960's, this is Ludnikovs service tunic. We got a nice load of stuff from his family.

DD
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Old 05-04-2003, 05:12 PM   #5
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Well I didn't know that.

I think that is the problem with studying the regulations too rigidly, there were probably many trends that were not documented in the regulations.
I must admit that photgrpahic evidence of what you claim is rare but I am not doubting it. One thing that puzzles me though, the parade uniform and grey holiday tunic (and white tunic) were all intoruduced in 1954, was there a period where these grey uniforms were not widely available to all marshals and generals?
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"We can truly say that the whole circuit of the earth is girdled with the graves of our dead... and, in the course of my pilgrimage, I have many times asked myself whether there can be more potent advocates of peace upon earth through the years to come, than this massed multitude of silent witnesses to the desolation of war."

King George V, Flanders, 1922
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Old 05-04-2003, 06:51 PM   #6
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regs.

I don't think a grey tunic was introduced in 1954. There was the blue/green parade and semi formal tunic, the white summer tunic, but no grey tunic (other then the grey marshals summer tunic). This from Kharitonov.

Most grey tunics seem to not have come about until the early 1960's without the cuff embroidery, then had the cuff embroidery added. I would like to see actual photos of the grey generals double breasted tunics in wear before 1958-1960; I don't think that they will be found.

So, the grey tuynic came out probably about 1962, the generals using the blue "parade" tunic with ribbons for semi-formal wear.


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Old 05-04-2003, 07:13 PM   #7
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Doug,
The Grey holiday tunic for Generals was actually introduced on 24th June 1954 under USSR Ministry of Defence order No.103. The Marshals grey tunic was introduced earlier in February.
I have enclosed a pciture of Kruschev greeting a Soviet general on a visit to East Germany which I am told took place in the late 1950s although I would like somone to verify this.
It may be the case that the tunic was introduced in 1954 but was not issued to Generals on a widespread basis until later. It was certainly mentioned in the 1958.
By the way you are 100% correct with the medal ribbons (not that I ever doubted you:)) as I looked them up in the '58 regs. The answer was staring me in the face!
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King George V, Flanders, 1922
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Old 05-04-2003, 07:15 PM   #8
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Sorry the scan is a bit blurry but he is definately a Leutenant general in the photograph.
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King George V, Flanders, 1922
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Old 05-04-2003, 07:27 PM   #9
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you are right about the regs.

I checked again and they list a grey tunic, but he (Kharitonov)only pictures a white one for summer dress; does not make sense to have two to do the same job though. Conflicting regs.? Its possible that they held out the grey tunic for four years and they used it to replace the white one in 1954. I know that the white tunic is really rare, thus making its time used short. My guess is that the grey replaced the white in practice in 1958-1960.

I still have not seen any of the grey that I can predate 1960. The photo is neat, but difficult to date ( maybe someone can do it by the DDR uniforms?). Anyone know when K went to the DDR?

DD
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Old 05-04-2003, 07:41 PM   #10
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That is how I was trying to date the photo but extensive searching has not found the exact date when Kruschev went to the DDR.
In the book Soviet Uniforms and Insignia 1917 - 1958 they list the two uniforms side by side.

Also, they state that on 9th July 1954 under USSR Ministry of Defence order No.103, grey trousers were adopted for both Marshals and Generals. There is no mention of white trousers for the white tunic.
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King George V, Flanders, 1922
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