Fake "Defense of" Campaign Medals

[charlet]

Originally Posted by Al-muell

It wasn't that bad with the Ukrainian Law - at least few years back. But right now Yalta is no longer Ukraine.

The essential of my soviet colletion - authentificated and bought from all reputeable dealers - does come from Ukraine... Customs didn't care about outcoming flows of goods... at least towards France.

[Auke]

Originally Posted by chrisovski

I'm a total novice and bought this 'Stalingrad' while on holiday in Yalta. I'd like to buy some more similar but am now aware that fakes abound. Is this a fake and, if so, why? Any help or advice greatly appreciated.

I actually think this is a good one. :thumbsup

[fpicoli]

Originally Posted by fpicoli

I believe that this is a original Sevastopol Medal and Document, but many fakes are available for sale so, i would appreciate the forum members opinion on this item.
Best regards.

No one has an opinion? No reply on this post?!?!?

[CtahhR]

Personally I find it rather difficult to contradict one of the authors of the "big red book" although I have successfully argued a contrary view before.

I believe that it is a fake too. It just doesn't click for me. A real Stalingrad sold on the forum about a week ago for $20 so that must be about the market price for them - and they are not by any means the least desirable of Soviet Medals. Then again we all know that everything is faked to one extent or another.

As for sources for Soviet awards I've only ever found 1 solid Ukrainian dealer and I got maybe a dozen items from him (higher end campaign Medals). No problems with posting the items out. There are threads in "General Talk" informing us about how zealous customs etc (Ukrainian or otherwise) can be when there in person. (Here's one)
The vast majority of Soviet awards I've collected come from Georgia (but then again the GSSR was my favourite) where "Soviet" items are tarred by the actions of Russia during 2008 and are certainly not seen favourably by many. I've got a feeling that Ukrainians may also have their attitudes fall in line with many Georgians. Unfortunately Ukraine is absolutely swamped by fakes which is not as prolific a problem in Georgia.

Echoing again - Beware!

[marsino]

Originally Posted by CtahhR

Personally I find it rather difficult to contradict one of the authors of the "big red book" although I have successfully argued a contrary view before.

I'm sorry, but I do not believe in God, let alone a normal human being. :D;)

[charlet]

Originally Posted by CtahhR

Personally I find it rather difficult to contradict one of the authors of the "big red book" although I have successfully argued a contrary view before.

I believe that it is a fake too. It just doesn't click for me.

Izzat a phaleristic argument???

[CtahhR]

On a word - No.

With contrary opinion on this one someone has to be wrong. If you are familiar with Desantnik's record, it is difficult to successfully argue a contradictory opinion when it comes to spotting the fakes.

Like I've said, it doesn't click for me and what is most important for us all is peace of mind. I wouldn't have that if this were in the collection so I would pass on it. As enthusiasts we are all different. Some would be happy and others not. I'm in the "not" camp.

[charlet]

Well I'm one of the last dinosaurs of this forum, and I remember Paul was not in the first row of specialists. Why?
Paul did a great job with PMD, and it could be interesting to see how they shared the work - I had the impression PMD examinated the tons of medals arriving at Moisseyev's estate in the USA and at Sasha Paretski's in Berlin, while Desantnik was dealing with linguistics tasks.
Of course in can be totally wrong. I still have my copy and I won't sell it: although obsolete it is still an example of scientific classification and vulgarisation. It has been a millestone in phalrestics I'd be really happy to see applied for other countries...

At the first row of combat phalerists we had Alexei Merezhko who finally found better air in others places, HulliganRS, New World then Lapa... A fine crew. In those times Paul Desantnik I believe was busy with its jobs all over the world, and with all that old generation gone, now he does the job.

The real problem is that russian phalerists have overcome us: they're better, that's all. They have the stuff, the docs, the sources, they do have everything. They did catalogs of exceptions, new variations, dies which would represent twice or more times of volume of the red bible... I believe like everyone of us Paul "Desantnik" can still learn something new each day God gives us. TWo weeks ago I went back to school about a Suvorov variation even not shown on Mondvor website...

PS: hey, I'm still waiting for neat and concrete statements about this medal!

[charlet]

Originally Posted by marsino

Totally opposite opinion, for me the medal is good. :thumbsup

On the contrary, this is a real fake.;)

What is the giveaway? The loop?

[travel-north]

I think the Stalingrad in post #1431 is genuine. The mondvor site has a variation without "pupyr" which is slightly different.