Hi Everyone!

[Kirchgoens]

These objects are loaded with symbolism, just like the posters. Given the misery and repression and fear that was especially present in the first three 3.5 decades, they must have needed something to attempt to counter it all...

...Brian

[Historian]

I agree, I studied Russia post 53' (so just after Stalin's demise), last year, my dissertation was on "In What Ways Did The Soviet Regime Use The Second World War To Legitimize Itself After 1945?" (managed to squeeze in a few Russian medal references there :-) ) The exstent of the new expressions against the regime, as the years went by was truly remarkable, if you follow Soviet film's for instance you get a dramatic upsurge in speaking out against the party over a matter of just 30 years. Take Elim Klimov's work "Come and See", or the film "Repentance". Your correct insaying that propaganda and symbolism was heavily in use.

ATB,
Tom

[Jeffrey Meffert]

I recently watched Eisenstein's classic and the message for both invaders and traitors was unmistakable. Costumes of the teutonic knights are great. Their bishops have little reverse swastikas embroidered into their vestments and the foot soldiers are wearing a slightly medevalized version of the M17 "coal scuttle".
The fact that Nevsky's image on the order is actually that of the actor from the film closes the loop.

[Historian]

Thanks to both of you,

Medals73, this point on Lenin will be only a passing hypothesis, purely because my entire point will be to allude/show correlation between medallic propaganda between Britain, Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia and to show the intricate symbolism within the medals. I personally think the layout design etc. should be read and interpreted upon, as long as the conjecture is shown and addressed (like you say by stating that research has yet to be done), I agree that naming the order after him, and placing him as a central figure is part of the course, however the final design that was decided upon, is surely worthy of hypothesis? Such as the changes then made which removed the tractor and made that award from a design point of view 'simpler' in form. I do however agree with your point that there is no substitute for research and that our interpretation of this is completely different to that of "Homo Sovieticus" during the reign of the CCCP. However are not most historians guilty of placing 'their' interpretation on history, which is out of place as we always look at it through our eyes and intepret it in our way.

Jeffrey, it truly is a magnificent film (maybe I'm just biased having watched it three times so far, wow my classes were hard ;-) ), however I found it hard to watch without thinking constantly of Monty Python :-). There are so many great Soviet films that are just lost today to non-Soviet audiences, Nevsky being one, the other being Klimov's film (that I mentioned earlier), the interpretayions placed upon the final shots of the film where time is rewound by the shots from the boys rifle is truly spectacular.

[medals73]

Yes, as a historian (Ph.D.), I think you are reading far too much into this.

Lenin was an important figure, and an important symbol of the revolution. On an order named after him, why should he not be the dominant design feature? The question to be asked -- which can't be answered without real research -- is how the decision was reached (1) to name the order after him and (2) why this design (rather than others) was chosen. What we may guess now as capitalist outsiders matters little; what the decision makers at the time thought is relevant, but it will take work to address that aspect. And all the guesswork in the world won't help. I am not at all sure we can easily read the design as it was read at the time, absent histoircal knowledge and serious research.

And do remember that all States use "propaganda and symbolism" to support their agenda; otherwise why waste money on any of this stuff anyway?

To clarify: I think you are asking a vitally important historical question, one of State sybology and values expressed in tangible form. (I have a colleague who is working on early Soviet postage stamps.) We just have to be very careful with our views as outsiders and post-Soviet (and, in some cases, rabidly anti-Soviet) observers.

[Commissar]

Im new here!
Im 16 and started collecting Soviet militaria last year.

Its nice to find a decent forum for Soviet collectors.

[DougD]

Welcome to the forum! This is the best Soviet forum on the web and you will learn a lot here (we are all still learning!).

DougD

[ANZAC]

Hi and welcome,

you are never to young or old to start collecting. Enjoy the foum.

Brendan

[Commissar]

Thank you very much for the welcomes.
I'm sure i will enjoy it here.

[HuliganRS]

Welcome!

Rusty