Patriotic War. - Page 4

Nota Bene · 10-01-2002, 06:31 PM

Eugene,

I’ve read your post, and I know the conventional theory. Durov is known as skeptic, and unless he sees a document with three official seals he wouldn’t believe it. It’s a good quality when you are writing a book, but since we don’t have any facts we might as well speculate. I think the conventional theory doesn’t take into account several minor aspects:

a) If you try (I just did) to insert a brass H&S into the holes of the OGPW it doesn’t fit. If you try to file the bendable wires on the brass H&S to make them thinner they will just break before you can bend them again. You need a special high speed (not to damage the enamel) thin drill bit to remove broken original rivets, and a drill press to avoid breaking the bit. How many soldiers during the war had access to such equipment? Maybe some at specialized shops to repair damaged equipment;

b) After the war award repairs were usually handled by jewelers, so how come jewelers all over the country used the same technique? Besides in more recent times it was very hard to find a hat badge with removable H&S to use as a replacement, it would probably be easier to make a replacement from scratch.

The unconventional theory on the contrary explains it all perfectly. There was a large demand for OGPWs, and they were assembled by different factories, so when they ran out of gold H&S they used brass replacements. After all it’s a well known fact, that back then awards were made/assembled not only by mints.

I realize of course that this is just a theory, and I can’t prove any of that. So I felt uncomfortable selling this piece, and will send it to the buyer for free.

Alexei

Mozzabloke · 10-02-2002, 03:19 AM

Alexei,

Its good of you to offer to not charge the buyer. However I do not think you have mislead anyone in any way and as such should not feel guilty about charging the auction price. After all nobody had to bid on this item, they made the choice.

Just my opinion.

Mark

Tal Inbar · 10-02-2002, 06:11 AM

A little off topic - remember that Michail Kakashnikov built a prototype SMG at a workshop for tank maintanance.

BTW, Eugene is correct regarding the saving of gold - it does not make sense that anyone was trying to save gold during the war: What about Lenins, Ushakovs, Suvorovs etc. And of course - Platinum is more expensive...

Alexei, I think that you are "too honest dealer"
Tal

Nota Bene · 10-02-2002, 03:28 PM

Mark, Tal,

I never go by the "caveat emptor" rule. If I sell something I am responsible for it, so I felt it was the right thing to do.

Eugene,

I totaly agree, untill we have some facts both theories have the right to exist.

Alexei

***Art*** · 10-08-2002, 04:26 PM

I always thought these were presented in the simple white cardboard boxes with the serial number and award name stamped on the box? Looks like a fantasy box to me.

sovvisor · 10-08-2002, 04:35 PM

I´m ready to go with you on that one. I have never seen these boxes before. If any one else has a comment.please post it.
Best

Ed Maier · 10-08-2002, 04:50 PM

I've got to go with Art on this one. I've only seen them in the white cardboard boxes with the serial number on them.

Ed

Nota Bene · 10-08-2002, 06:19 PM

Sovvisor,

I have tried to magnify the box and especially the H&S, and I don't think they are Soviet production.

Alexei

Chris · 12-14-2002, 05:42 PM

The number looks a bit strange, and the hammer and sickle is a bit bent, I think its ok however.

Chris

Nota Bene · 12-14-2002, 06:30 PM

Chris,

It's perfectly genuine and it's not unusual to see those H&S bent like this.

Alexei

10-02-2002, 03:19 AM	#2
Mozzabloke Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Sheffield, England Age: 49 Posts: 104	Alexei, Its good of you to offer to not charge the buyer. However I do not think you have mislead anyone in any way and as such should not feel guilty about charging the auction price. After all nobody had to bid on this item, they made the choice. Just my opinion. Mark Last edited by Mozzabloke; 10-02-2002 at 03:21 AM.

10-02-2002, 06:11 AM	#3
Tal Inbar Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Israel Age: 55 Posts: 2,302	A little off topic - remember that Michail Kakashnikov built a prototype SMG at a workshop for tank maintanance. BTW, Eugene is correct regarding the saving of gold - it does not make sense that anyone was trying to save gold during the war: What about Lenins, Ushakovs, Suvorovs etc. And of course - Platinum is more expensive... Alexei, I think that you are "too honest dealer" Tal __________________ Under the banner of Marxism-Leninism, under the leadership of the Communist Party--forward to new victories in the construction of communism!

10-08-2002, 04:26 PM	#5
*Art* Forum Founder Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Buffalo NY Age: 58 Posts: 1,646	I always thought these were presented in the simple white cardboard boxes with the serial number and award name stamped on the box? Looks like a fantasy box to me. __________________ Visit the main site to the forum: The Soviet Military Awards Page Want to sell awards on the forum? Please read the FAQ Important Links: Forum announcements and rules \| Image posting FAQ

10-08-2002, 04:35 PM	#6
sovvisor Bearer of the Red Star Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Uppsala Swden Age: 49 Posts: 229	thanks art I´m ready to go with you on that one. I have never seen these boxes before. If any one else has a comment.please post it. Best __________________ sovvisor

12-14-2002, 05:42 PM	#9
Chris Banned Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 188	Number and sickle The number looks a bit strange, and the hammer and sickle is a bit bent, I think its ok however. Chris

10-01-2002, 06:31 PM	#1
Nota Bene Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York USA Posts: 2,296	Eugene, I’ve read your post, and I know the conventional theory. Durov is known as skeptic, and unless he sees a document with three official seals he wouldn’t believe it. It’s a good quality when you are writing a book, but since we don’t have any facts we might as well speculate. I think the conventional theory doesn’t take into account several minor aspects: a) If you try (I just did) to insert a brass H&S into the holes of the OGPW it doesn’t fit. If you try to file the bendable wires on the brass H&S to make them thinner they will just break before you can bend them again. You need a special high speed (not to damage the enamel) thin drill bit to remove broken original rivets, and a drill press to avoid breaking the bit. How many soldiers during the war had access to such equipment? Maybe some at specialized shops to repair damaged equipment; b) After the war award repairs were usually handled by jewelers, so how come jewelers all over the country used the same technique? Besides in more recent times it was very hard to find a hat badge with removable H&S to use as a replacement, it would probably be easier to make a replacement from scratch. The unconventional theory on the contrary explains it all perfectly. There was a large demand for OGPWs, and they were assembled by different factories, so when they ran out of gold H&S they used brass replacements. After all it’s a well known fact, that back then awards were made/assembled not only by mints. I realize of course that this is just a theory, and I can’t prove any of that. So I felt uncomfortable selling this piece, and will send it to the buyer for free. Alexei

10-02-2002, 03:28 PM	#4
Nota Bene Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York USA Posts: 2,296	Mark, Tal, I never go by the "caveat emptor" rule. If I sell something I am responsible for it, so I felt it was the right thing to do. Eugene, I totaly agree, untill we have some facts both theories have the right to exist. Alexei

10-08-2002, 04:50 PM	#7
Ed Maier Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Frederick, MD Age: 55 Posts: 203	I've got to go with Art on this one. I've only seen them in the white cardboard boxes with the serial number on them. Ed

10-08-2002, 06:19 PM	#8
Nota Bene Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York USA Posts: 2,296	Sovvisor, I have tried to magnify the box and especially the H&S, and I don't think they are Soviet production. Alexei

12-14-2002, 06:30 PM	#10
Nota Bene Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York USA Posts: 2,296	Chris, It's perfectly genuine and it's not unusual to see those H&S bent like this. Alexei

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