Order "Georgi Dimitrov".

[charlet]

A question for fellow collectors: about order of georgi dimitrov (little brother of lenin!). We see a few ones in Paris, and in germany. It is said in gold like lenin, and it is hollow, empty? in it, and with a small hole of fabrication on the reverse.
We've been told with a friend there were fakes, bronze gold-plated, strange enamels, sloppy ring. But I need good scans of fakes or else...
thanks by advance
:D

[Tal Inbar]

In the first pic. Dimitrov looks as he is sleeping...But not in this second pic.:

Tal

[new world]

Documented and cased Dimitrov and Dimitrov miniature.

[charlet]

nice pics, new world...Tal I know your source, it's nice pix too, one of the best of my electronic library. If you heard about fakes, tell me (even if I can't afford this...and if I could...a nice Lenin is still a nice piece of history! )

[new world]

"We've been told with a friend there were fakes, bronze gold-plated, strange enamels, sloppy ring"

Charlet,

Actually the official copies of Dimitrov exist. My supplier in Bulgaria recently offered me a Dimitrov which's identical to the original, but made out of bronze.

The copy was a bit over $100, while original one would cost you anywhere from $300 to $500.

Best,

William

[charlet]

hi Tal, I think we have similar photothéque...I picked up this picture in Germany if I remind. That's a very nice pic. The so-called dimitrov (real-fakes?) were perfectly flat, smooth and one hole. Looks like high-quality gold plating, like good brass. Not the deep yellow of the soviet gold for lenins.
William, I'm worried with this hypothesis (if you permit I call this so) there are official reproductions, because this is a very known lie used for soviet awards...I don't want discredite your suplier in bulgaria. The ones I saw were pretty well done, nice enamel red-brown...I saw a bizarre one, with a scratch under it silver color (plating gone...sure), and crude ring.
I'll try to contact a big big french collector who told me imprecisely there were different quality in the production one can be seen in teh enamels...thanks you all!

[d-riemer]

The Bulgarian Order of Dimitrov was issued in several versions. All were made from solid 14-karat gold but the weight changed. In addition, earlier awards had serial numbers on the back, late ones did not. About 4000 orders have been awarded (compared with 600,000 of the USSR Lenin Order; population of Bulgaria: 7.5 million, Soviet Union: 225 million). Here is the front of the first issue and that of the last issue. The heavy first issue is quite rare, only about 200 orders have been awarded. Obvious visual differences are identified by numbers (odd on one, even on the other picture). The differences around the eyes that are mentioned in earlier threads seem also associated with the different issues.

And here are the backs of the two types of the Bulgarian Dimitrov Order. Differences are even more apparent from the back.

And then after Type 1 there is a lightweight interim type that has the serial number manually scribed just as on Soviet orders. I think this covers all Dimitrovs except for the last type that is in rare cases also found with a serial number.

The problem with collecting Bulgarian awards is the lack of a detailed book equivalent to McDaniel's. How was he ever able to gather all the details contained in his book?

[Tal Inbar]

We can trust Dietrich, he will show the rare items to us in the right time...

[charlet]

a great great thanks...I think with such informations we could seriously concurrence paul mac daniel...I never found more complete about this order...the only one in france to posses dimitrovs keeps his huge collection in a bank!
stupid question of the day (I'm specialist coz I'm a junior collector): Tal called you Dietrich, you're not connectec with Dr Dietrich Herfurth from Berlin?
greetings and happy christmas!

[d-riemer]

Dietrich Herfurth is from East Berlin, the former DDR, where he published his excellent book about the Military Awards of the Soviet Union in 1987. That book was not written for collectors because the collecting of awards of the Soviet Union was unknown in East Germany and also not possible at that time. The book was published to provide information for East German citizens to understand medals and badges they could see daily when meeting Soviet soldiers on the street or at official events or when reading history books.

After the collapse of the DDR in 1990, Herfurth quickly converted his knowledge about Soviet awards into a catalog for collectors containing pricing information obtained from dealers, an admirable accomplishment. The second edition was published in 1995, the third in 1999.

The only thing I have in common with Dietrich Herfurth is the first name and the fact that I lived in Berlin (West) before we moved to the US many decades ago. I grew up in the eastern part of Germany and later visited my parents often in the DDR.

I had a brief exchange of letters with Herfurth just before McDaniel's book was published. He knew about the book because he had written the Foreword. He was excited and stated that the book would have a dramatic effect on the collecting of Soviet awards. He was right.