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Great Mongolian State Их Монгол Улс 29th December 1911 - 26th November 1924

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Old 08-21-2012, 07:58 AM   #11
Lapa
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Re: Order of the Precious Rod (Vajra)

Guys,

Most likely a rather uneducated-sounding question, but how do you differenciate the classes/grades on those? (that is, other than "because the dealer told me so" type of reason :D)

Marc
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Old 08-21-2012, 08:41 AM   #12
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Re: Order of the Precious Rod (Vajra)

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Originally Posted by Lapa View Post
Guys,

Most likely a rather uneducated-sounding question, but how do you differenciate the classes/grades on those? (that is, other than "because the dealer told me so" type of reason :D)

Marc
A very good and reasonable question. It is as complex as the imperial Chinese orders (on which I suspect it was patterned). The differences in so far as we know them are detailed in Battushig's book (pp. 41-43) and in Bold (pp. 5-10 - if you can read it) (while it falls outside Urnukh's time period, he briefly discusses it pp. 12-13); since that, I have gotten some documents from the archives in UB. In tentative summary:

Type 1 (1913-24)

Type 1.1 (First Class) - yellow ribbon (when ribboned) - distinguishing these (and specimens are super-rare) requires, I think, reading the reverse legend
Type 1.1.1 (First Class, First Grade) - red stones at center and top - also seen referred to as the "Order of Chengis Khan" (distinct from the current order)
Type 1.1.2 (First Class, Second Grade) - red stones at center and top - also seen referred to as the "Order of Abtain Sain Khan"
Type 1.1.3 (First Class, Third Grade) - coral at center and top - also seen referred to as the "Order of Undur Gegeen"

Type 1.2 (Second Class) - red ribbon
Type 1.2.1 (Second Class, First Grade) - red stone at center and light blue stone at top
Type 1.2.2 (Second Class, Second Grade) - red stone at center and dark blue stone (lapis?) at top
Type 1.2.3 (Second Class, Third Grade) - coral at center
Type 1.2.4 (Second Class, Fourth Grade) - ??? at center

Type 1.3 (Third Class) - blue/gray ribbon
Type 1.3.1 (Third Class, First Grade) - blue stone (lapis?) at center and coral at top
Type 1.3.2 (Third Class, Second Grade) - coral at center
Type 1.3.3 (Third Class, Third Grade) - moonstone at center
Type 1.3.4 (Third Class, Fourth Grade) - lapis at center
Type 1.3.5 (Third Class, Fifth Grade) - white stone (enamel?) at center

Interestingly, it briefly survived the 1921 revolution.

Type 2 (1991—)

Type 2.1 (First Grade)
Type 2.1.1 (First Grade – cloth ribbon) - 1 known to have been awarded
Type 2.1.2 (First Grade – enameled ribbon) - 1 known to have been awarded

Type 2.2 (Second Grade) - 2 known to have been awarded

Type 2.3 (Third Grade) - not yet awarded ?

The numbers of awards for the Type 2 may need updating. I am still trying to find out if Hillary Clinton got one during her recent visit.

Urnukh?
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Old 08-21-2012, 01:46 PM   #13
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Re: Order of the Precious Rod (Vajra)

Ed,

Thank you for the detailed explanation. So, effectively, the ribbon would be the main determinant of class, whereas stones would be that of grade, right?

Marc
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Old 08-21-2012, 01:57 PM   #14
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Re: Order of the Precious Rod (Vajra)

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Ed,

Thank you for the detailed explanation. So, effectively, the ribbon would be the main determinant of class, whereas stones would be that of grade, right?

Marc
Yes, essentially. There are no matches in design and, in any case, the reverse legend is the real giveaway (if you can read it).

And here's a pair in the historical museum in Ulaanbaatar.
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Old 08-21-2012, 04:41 PM   #15
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Re: Order of the Precious Rod (Vajra)

Actually, here's a useful (?) image (of the ones that were for sale) showing the three classes.
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