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Old 06-08-2006, 06:44 PM   #1
Riley1965
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Deputy Badges.

Here's the newest addition to my Mongol Collection. It's a...

Deputy of the State Lower Assembly (1924-1944) Badge serial Number 100

Doc
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Old 07-31-2006, 04:36 PM   #2
Nota Bene
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Two variations of B 01 observed - with and without the mintmark.

Alexei
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Old 01-07-2010, 12:25 AM   #3
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Re: Deputy Badges

This is an old thread, but it has the right title.

I have a badge nearly the same as the one pictured below (exact same wording and design) and paid a small amount for it (as somebody else just did on ePay, I believe). The question I have is two parts. First, what level of deputy is this? If it is in line with the Soviet versions, then is this a regional (rayon/oblast) badge? Third (;)), the reverse of this one is textured and the seller called it the "old type." The one I have has a smooth back with a much older looking and more "refined" pin and hook system - obviously either made at a different mint or at a different time period. Anyone know more about these?

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Old 01-07-2010, 07:32 AM   #4
medals73
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Re: Deputy Badges

Thanks for bringing this thread back to life, Philip. While it may sometimes be useful to look to the Soviet model when studying Mongolian awards, it is also important to understand Mongolia.

What you have here is the badge for a Deputy of the Province and Towns Council (Battushig #B09). By "province", Bat means the Aimag (Аймаг). This was worn by members of the administrative councils of the 21 Aimags (though this number fluctuates over time) and the independent industrial towns of of Darkhan and Erdenet.

The Aimag is the basic unit of administration and with the exception of the capital city of Ulanbaatar and these two industrial towns, the remainder of the country is organized into Aimags. It is the major second-tier unit of administration and actually does things.

There are three varieties of Aimag badges, and it is difficult to put dates onto these. The first (Battushig's B08) seems to be earlier than yours, and was used for the Aimags, the capital, and the towns. I would guess (for what that is worth) that it is from the 1960s and early 1970s. The second variety is what you have and I'd guess it is from the late 1970s and 1980s, though by this period a separate badge was used for Ulanbaatar (Battushig B10 and B11). After 1991, a new design of the Aimag badge was introduced (Battushig B14 and B15).

I show these earlier and later Aimag badges below.

The quality of manufacture varies widely, and I think many of these were locally made. There is also the danger with many (though especially with your variety) that the enamel coating discolors, yellows, and makes the central blue stripe look a rather sickly green. I have never seen a screwback badge for these nor have I seen any of them numbered (unlike the khural badges that are always numbered).

It is, by the way, important to distinguish the badge you have from that used in the same period for the next lower level of administration, the Sum (Cум), many of these 331 had limited power with average areas of 4,200 km² and with about 5,000 inhabitants. I have shown this often-confusing badge (B12) below as well (the later Sum badges are B13 and B17). Below the Sum is the Bag and most of these exist on paper only, merely as lists of nomadic families, but they also have badges after 1991 (B16).

I hope this hasn't confused things even more?

I could always add more, of course, and can dig out some documents too if anyone wants . . . . :rolleyes:
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Last edited by medals73; 01-07-2010 at 07:51 AM.
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Old 01-07-2010, 09:18 PM   #5
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Re: Deputy Badges

Thank you for the plethora of information. Not as confusing when you think it over as when you are actually reading it - if that makes sense.

You are spot on about the enamel. Though the pictures I posted are not of my badge, but one very much like mine, mine does have a similar "greenish" hue in the center. I thought it was intentional.:( Now I know better. It's too bad because the blues in your badges are quite eye-catching.

What strikes me as odd is that the "Sum" (Raion) badge is so close in design to mine which since you said it was used at roughly the same time would be absurdly confusing unless one were to walk up to someone wearing either of these and squint to see which level they were "working" at.:rolleyes:

Feel free to break out any documents you want because I will have some questions about Mongolian award booklets in the near future.:thumbsup

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Old 01-08-2010, 07:51 AM   #6
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Re: Deputy Badges

Here are a few documents, whose scans happen to be at hand. Part of the gropup to Jamtsaa Jantsan (a nice group but sadly missing two awards: Red Banner of Combat Valor, #4953, 29 August 1995 and Medal "We Won", #52388, 28 December 1990 [!]).

The deputy badge earliest is the highest.

"Mr.Jamtsaa Jantsan is a member of the State Great Khural of the Mongolian People's Repbulic and is elected from the electoral district No. 42 of Choibalsan of the Third State Great Khural of the Mongolian People's Republic.

"The Chairman of the Presidium of the State Great Khural of MPR, J.Sambuu.

"The Secretary of the Presidium of the State Great Khural of MPR.

"July 8th, 1957"
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Old 01-08-2010, 07:54 AM   #7
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Re: Deputy Badges

And then he went home to earn his two Deputy of County and Towns Council badges.

The first:

"Mr.Jantsan is a deputy of the 17th electoral district of the 7th people's election of the sum & district deputies.

"Executive administration chief of the People's Deputy assembly of the Dornod province.

"June 15th, 1965"

The second:

"Mr.Jantsan is a deputy of the 28th electoral district of the 8th people's election of the sum county & district deputies.

"Executive administration chief of the People's Deputy assembly of the Dornod province.

"June 28th, 1967"
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Old 01-08-2010, 08:44 AM   #8
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Re: Deputy Badges

To go back to badges and to the beginning . . . .

The first Provisional Lesser Khural (by "Khural", the Soviets would think "Soviet", though it is a term for an assembly that dates back to the time of Cheingis Khan, though appareltly the Soviets didn't know that or they'd have changed the name) was convened at Ugra (later Ulanbaatar) on 5 September 1921. In effect, this was a pre-Parliament.

The first Greater Khural opened its first session on 8 November 1924. It had 77 delegates, 6 fomer noblemen and the remainder poor and middle peasants. Forty-six of its members were also MPRP members. It proclaimed the creation of the MPR and, by the end of the month, had drafted the first constitution.

The supreme State power was, according to the 1924 constitution, vested in the Greater Khural, a select group of 30 members, elected by the Lesser Khural, which met only once every three years (the terms of the members were also three years) to consider issues of the greatest importance. It is believed (though it is not in Battushig and is, to some, still controversial) that the first badge shown below was the Greater Khural badge. (Sorry for the nasty small and washed-out scan.)

The central ongoing parliamentary institution was to be the Lesser Khural, which met annually and was elected by the councils of each Aimag on the basis of one khural member for every 1,500 people (but in the absence of a scientic census of a nomadic population there must have been considerable guesswork?). To carry on administration between its annual sessions, the Lesser Khural also elected a Presidium of five members and appointed the senior members of government. The Presidium, obviously, ran things. The Lesser Khural badge is the one shown by Doc to lead off this thread, but for the sake of consistency I'll show one of mine here. For reasons not clearly understood, bags and bags of these Lesser Khural badges emerged from the State Bank in the late 1990s.

While these badges were numbered, it is unlikely that any roll of these numbers survives. To date, no accompanying certificate has surfaced, but as it would be in bichig, not Cyrillic, the generation that could read that script with ease is passing (despite government efforts to reintroduce the script in schools).

This basic structure was continued in the 1940 Constitution and it is currently believed that these badges continued in use during this period. Things (and badges) would, however change with the 1960 Constitution.
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:07 AM   #9
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Re: Deputy Badges

To continue in our discussion of these deputy badges, a few additions to the Higher and Lower Khural badges (1924-44) shown above:

Type 1.1 – Deputy of the State Higher Assembly -- not much is known on the serial number range as my records show only #63 -- not in Battushig.

Type 1.2 – Deputy of the State Lower Assembly -- reported serial number range Low = 1/High = 236 -- I have never seen one without a mint mark, but if NB says they exist, I trust his statement -- Battushig B01.

Both of these badges are now faked and there is much controversy surrounding them (especially the 1.1 variety).

It is not presently known what badges (if any) were used in the 1944-60 period. Personally, I'd guess that these badges continued in use, but I have only the vague recollection of one aging senior Mongolian official to support this supposition. But, in my notes, I refer to these as a possible unknown Type 2, just in case something surfaces.
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Old 12-02-2011, 09:23 AM   #10
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Re: Deputy Badges

In 1960, a new and more familiar Type 3.1 deputy badge came into use (Battushig B02). These came in both screwback (Type 3.1.1) and pinback (Type 3.1.2) varieties. I do know that the serial numbering of these was pretty haphazard and, if you arrived at work having forgotten your badge, you'd just go into the main office and pick up another (if you were important enough?).

The observed serial number range of the Type 3.1.1 screwback badges is limited by my having just a single specimen in my notes, 0540, while the Type 3.1.2 pinback badges has the range of Low = 1779/High = 2272.
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