The NKVD is back in style, literally !

[Jeffrey Meffert]

Originally Posted by vvadim_

Most likely you have seen Khaidurov’ model TOZ-36 with grip from TOZ-49.

Must be. Grip, as I recall, looked the same as the lower pistol shown. I shoot a stock 1944 nagant that I would probably do more damage to the target throwing the pistol at the target than shooting at it. Hopefully the target version is more accurate although appears to fire same cartridge.

[deValcourt]

Originally Posted by vvadim_

Your fascination with black uniforms is well known, however Soviet OGPU/NKVD/MVD didn’t had any black uniforms. With exception of short lived transportation police uniform in yearly twenties and in late forties – yearly fifties.
In entire OGPU/NKVD/MVD/MGB history leather attire (including leather coats) was never adapted or issued for soviet state security personnel, ever.

I'm not terribly concerned with historical accuracy when it comes to these long coats. I just like long black leather coats cut in the WWI or WWII style. Frankly, I couldn't care less if they are security services or not. If I want to slap on a OGPU patch on the sleeve because I like the way it looks, then I will. I just received a WWII US tan wool greatcoat that is exactly the style that I like. Will I try to make it look like a Soviet Security Services coat? Probably not. But if I do, it won't be for historical accuracy. I won't be trying to pass it off as something it's not (like some people). It will be for my personal taste - and the last time I checked, everybody is allowed that, regardless of what others may think.

Now, as far as your last statement about leather never being officially issued to security service personnel, that is mostly true (high-ranking officials from colonels to generals often requested their coats to be made of leather). However, the agents themselves had a fondness for them and usually got such coats through the air force or simply had them made as I did. Not having them issued and not wearing them as their uniforms are two different things since none of the security services - with the exception of the ones operating during WWII - were ever part of the military and had their own "uniform code" which, since no one has yet to produce one, could only be assumed to be like every other nation's intelligence organs and agents (as opposed to say, a desk sergeant) only has one "uniform" that they wears for specific occasions while the rest of the time he or she dresses in whatever they please, and it seems to have pleased many Soviet security personnel to wear long leather coats.


Phillip

[Jeffrey Meffert]

you could get a nice flyer's leather coat...possibly even same manufacturer but better price because it's not nkvd

[deValcourt]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Meffert

you could get a nice flyer's leather coat...possibly even same manufacturer but better price because it's not NKVD

Jeffrey, that is precisely what I am talking about. The OGPU and NKVD street urchins grabbed what they could from the fly boys.;)

Now back to the stuttering VVADIM who has been banished before (from what I and anyone can see of his past here) and found some way back in to this forum; the point is, regardless of "official" issue clothing, the average "Ivan" in the security services wore whatever he/she wanted to and simply held their ID "above their hearts" (i.e. left breast inside pocket) as per the orders of Andropov and his predecessors. I know this from personal experience and any statement to the contrary is simply a lie or an uninformed opinion. There is no room for argument on this point unless you are current SVR, which I strongly doubt.

Phillip

[vvadim]

Originally Posted by deValcourt

I'm not terribly concerned with historical accuracy

Please say no more:thumbsup

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Meffert

you could get a nice flyer's leather coat...possibly even same manufacturer but better price because it's not nkvd

This is not flyer's leather coat. They all had reglan sleeves.
Just ask yourself for how long those external buttons going to last when you have to wear parachute like this? Please take a close look how side pockets looks like.

[RichieC]

Originally Posted by deValcourt

Now back to the stuttering VVADIM who has been banished before (from what I and anyone can see of his past here) and found some way back in to this forum
Phillip

Phillip,

Kindly elaborate in a new thread why such a comprehensive source of FREE information, "unsweetened opinion" and authentic written regulation "stutters".

IMO, his "banishment" in the past was possibly incurred because a colleague or two of ours were put on the spot in challenge of their "expertise"....

[Esteban_cool]

Originally Posted by RichieC

IMO, his "banishment" in the past was possibly incurred because a colleague or two of ours were put on the spot in challenge of their "expertise"....

Maybe it´s because how he put them "on the spot"... One is free to do as you say, but always using respectful terms and showing humility. And when someone is sanctioned by being banned, it´s because that someone didn´t play by the rules, I´m afraid. I´m pretty aware that Art and the moderators don´t punish because they want to.

Now let´s get back on topic, shall we? NKVD Leather jackets are more important than this.

[Jeffrey Meffert]

Originally Posted by vvadim_

This is not flyer's leather coat. They all had reglan sleeves.
Just ask yourself for how long those external buttons going to last when you have to wear parachute like this? Please take a close look how side pockets looks like.

Perhaps not SUPPOSED to be a flyers coat (regulations are as you state) but by now I think we are all comfortable with the fact that there are regulations, there are common usage variations...and then there is everyone else. It makes the most sense to have raglan sleeves (slanted seam from armpit to collar rather than at the edge of the shoulder). It also makes sense to have the buttons covered but that just wasn't always the case depending upon uniform availability. By the way, the lower buttons are barely hanging on and at least one looks like it was sewn back on.
I've marked circles on a some of the button rows and non-raglan shoulder seams below...unless you are saying these aren't flyers either.

[vvadim]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey Meffert

I've marked circles on a some of the button rows and non-raglan shoulder seams below...unless you are saying these aren't flyers either.

I know they all looks the same to you, but on that picture taken in the fall of 1927 all those guys your circle wearing jackets. I made enlargement of three guys on the right. In case you you still can’t see this is also another group for you. These jackets were not very suitable for flying and model 1926 flyer’s coat was adopted for pilots.

[deValcourt]

Originally Posted by vvadim_

Please say no more:thumbsup

I'll add the qualifier - "when it comes to something I wish to wear during the winter."

Now if you can let it go with the understanding that I just want a full length black leather coat cut in the design of the 1930s-40s for my own personal use, then we can get back to exchanging accurate information about Soviet awards, uniforms, papers, etc. I apologize to anyone who thought my individual preference in winter clothing had anything to do with historical accuracy. There is no need to turn this into a personal grudge match over something so simple as individual taste. When it comes to the "serious side" of my collecting, I am a fanatic about historical accuracy, and anybody who has bothered to look at my posts will see just that.

Phillip