Fake CheKa/NKVD/KGB Documents - Page 3

Nota Bene · 08-26-2002, 11:39 AM

Gentlemen,

This seller sure knows how to make ugly scans! As Shawn has mentioned they look OK, but I have a gut feeling they are fakes. The same seller has a bunch of those documents, and the hand writting on some fakes and "OK" ones looks very similar. Besides genuine documents cost more then $45-50. I'd be very cautious about bying them. Just my opinion.

Alexei

makov25 · 11-06-2002, 01:05 AM

Currently on ebay. Looks good, but it is fake.

look at the picture

looks familiar? He is not Sorachentsev Fedor Semenovich his name Goryunov Mihail Vasilyevich

one more

otlichnik · 11-06-2002, 03:08 AM

What an incredible stroke of luck that you have the other docs!!! Now, you are likely correct and someone has used the old photo to make a new fake doc - although they have done a lot of work as it looks good and appears well aged.

Just to play Devil's advocate though, I wonder if there is any chance that it is legit and he went by different names? We know this happened with 1st Chief Directorate - foreign spying - guys but I don't know about interior. I have a set of docs and awards to an OGPU/NKVD-GUGB/NKGB/MGB, guy who won the Distinguished NKVD badge by a NKGB decree. After the war he served in a Soviet Embassy in the Middle East under a fake name - unfortunately there is no ID with this fake name. The vendor told me once he had the guys passport in the fake name but had sold it before I came along to buy the rest of the set. Anyway, it shows that in some cases it happened.

A very long shot. Occam's Razor tells us that the simplest explanation is almost always right - a fake. But I would love to see the doc itself.

Is it from the same vendor you bought yours from??

Shawn

Tal Inbar · 11-06-2002, 04:39 AM

Great observation. Why don't you contact the seller???? I would LOVE to hear the explenation...

see:
http://soviet-awards.addr.com/forum/...=&threadid=687 for more "finds" of that dealer.

makov25 · 11-06-2002, 08:19 AM

I have in my possesion many more documents and photographs of this man. He was NKVD driver. He started his career by personally escorting Feliks Andmundovich Dzerzinskiy. I recieved all of my material on this man directly from his family in the Ukraine. The family had come into possesion of these items when Russia collapsed. They were able to obtain the majority of material on this individual from the muzeum.

Nota Bene · 11-06-2002, 05:42 PM

Gentlemen,

I would LOVE to hear his explanation as well, especially considering that he has dozens of fake NKVD/KGB documents for sale every week. Most people who buy from him seem to be satisfied with their purchases! Makes me so :mad:

Alexei

otlichnik · 11-07-2002, 03:43 AM

Contacting the seller would be very interesting. However, I think it is a job for makov25 IF he wishes to. As I don't own the other documents it is not for me to bring it up.

As I said in my post, I suspect the worst but you never know. I do wonder why they would even bother to use a photo of a real NKVD guy when so many other fakes have obviously just used whatever photo they can get their hands on.

It does lead me to wish there was more good info out there on documents. I have been SLOWLY working on the docs section of my NKVD/KGB site for ages. Part of the problem is time, but part is also new doubts on some of my stuff.

Shawn

makov25 · 11-07-2002, 08:29 AM

I did contacted the seller but no respond from him.

Mozzabloke · 11-07-2002, 09:01 AM

Suprise Suprise!

I didnt think he would develop a conscience all of a sudden.

never mind at least you tried.

Mark

makov25 · 11-07-2002, 05:04 PM

This is respond I receive:

"Dear Glenn.

Thank you for your email.
I do ot know much about this item.
Maybe you are right, maybe not, I do not know.
I sell them how they are.
If someone likes them, them person can buy them, if the person does not then
so be it.

Best Regards, Viktoria"

11-06-2002, 04:39 AM	#24
Tal Inbar Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Israel Age: 55 Posts: 2,302	Great observation. Why don't you contact the seller???? I would LOVE to hear the explenation... see: http://soviet-awards.addr.com/forum/...=&threadid=687 for more "finds" of that dealer. __________________ Under the banner of Marxism-Leninism, under the leadership of the Communist Party--forward to new victories in the construction of communism!

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08-26-2002, 11:39 AM	#21
Nota Bene Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York USA Posts: 2,296	Gentlemen, This seller sure knows how to make ugly scans! As Shawn has mentioned they look OK, but I have a gut feeling they are fakes. The same seller has a bunch of those documents, and the hand writting on some fakes and "OK" ones looks very similar. Besides genuine documents cost more then $45-50. I'd be very cautious about bying them. Just my opinion. Alexei

11-06-2002, 03:08 AM	#23
otlichnik Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Age: 56 Posts: 547	What an incredible stroke of luck that you have the other docs!!! Now, you are likely correct and someone has used the old photo to make a new fake doc - although they have done a lot of work as it looks good and appears well aged. Just to play Devil's advocate though, I wonder if there is any chance that it is legit and he went by different names? We know this happened with 1st Chief Directorate - foreign spying - guys but I don't know about interior. I have a set of docs and awards to an OGPU/NKVD-GUGB/NKGB/MGB, guy who won the Distinguished NKVD badge by a NKGB decree. After the war he served in a Soviet Embassy in the Middle East under a fake name - unfortunately there is no ID with this fake name. The vendor told me once he had the guys passport in the fake name but had sold it before I came along to buy the rest of the set. Anyway, it shows that in some cases it happened. A very long shot. Occam's Razor tells us that the simplest explanation is almost always right - a fake. But I would love to see the doc itself. Is it from the same vendor you bought yours from?? Shawn

11-06-2002, 08:19 AM	#25
makov25 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: LYONS IL Age: 54 Posts: 21	I have in my possesion many more documents and photographs of this man. He was NKVD driver. He started his career by personally escorting Feliks Andmundovich Dzerzinskiy. I recieved all of my material on this man directly from his family in the Ukraine. The family had come into possesion of these items when Russia collapsed. They were able to obtain the majority of material on this individual from the muzeum.

11-06-2002, 05:42 PM	#26
Nota Bene Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York USA Posts: 2,296	Gentlemen, I would LOVE to hear his explanation as well, especially considering that he has dozens of fake NKVD/KGB documents for sale every week. Most people who buy from him seem to be satisfied with their purchases! Makes me so :mad: Alexei

11-07-2002, 03:43 AM	#27
otlichnik Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Age: 56 Posts: 547	Contacting the seller would be very interesting. However, I think it is a job for makov25 IF he wishes to. As I don't own the other documents it is not for me to bring it up. As I said in my post, I suspect the worst but you never know. I do wonder why they would even bother to use a photo of a real NKVD guy when so many other fakes have obviously just used whatever photo they can get their hands on. It does lead me to wish there was more good info out there on documents. I have been SLOWLY working on the docs section of my NKVD/KGB site for ages. Part of the problem is time, but part is also new doubts on some of my stuff. Shawn

11-07-2002, 08:29 AM	#28
makov25 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: LYONS IL Age: 54 Posts: 21	I did contacted the seller but no respond from him.

11-07-2002, 09:01 AM	#29
Mozzabloke Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Sheffield, England Age: 49 Posts: 104	Suprise Suprise! I didnt think he would develop a conscience all of a sudden. never mind at least you tried. Mark

11-07-2002, 05:04 PM	#30
makov25 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: LYONS IL Age: 54 Posts: 21	This is respond I receive: "Dear Glenn. Thank you for your email. I do ot know much about this item. Maybe you are right, maybe not, I do not know. I sell them how they are. If someone likes them, them person can buy them, if the person does not then so be it. Best Regards, Viktoria"

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