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General And Slightly Off Topic Talk Forum for exchanging ideas and talking about general issues without straying too far off topic.

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Old 02-28-2003, 12:13 PM   #21
charlet
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the high stuff is captured by russian collectors or go towards west...and USA. Remains the common stuff, less risky, and all papers, diplomas, etc. quite a part of soviet collecting I think.
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Old 03-12-2003, 04:38 PM   #22
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I agree with you all.
Those times when people could get anything for any price are almos over and thanks for the power of the internet, they all know the value and learn how to jack the price very quickly when they hear USA.
At this point of time I cant find any reason to bring awards from there (unless you can talk a border patrol guard to sell you the bag of confiscated items for a round price)..... would be sweet though
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Old 03-13-2003, 07:21 AM   #23
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i know a dealer who got round the problem of airport custum basicaly he mailed them through dhl and they werent checked,cos they checked it there and it got through no problem at all!
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Old 03-14-2003, 11:21 PM   #24
tinmoldova
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I think your friend got lucky with the DHL shipment. I know in Moldova DHL had a government customs agent assigned to specially inspect all DHL incoming and outgoing packages.
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Old 04-05-2003, 06:13 PM   #25
new world
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Awards collecting in current laws

Fellow collectors,

We all are aware and had several discussions about the fact that selling Soviet awards is against the law in Russia and some other former republics.

However, I was very much surprised that here in the USA owning /selling certain US medals is against the law too!!!

Look at the legal statutes regulating certain awards, specifically Medal of Honor:

_________________________________________________

The relevant Federal Code:

18 U.S. Code section 704(a):

"Whoever knowingly wears, manufactures, or sells any decoration or medal authorized by Congress for the armed forces of the United States, or any of the service medals or badges awarded to the members of such forces, or the ribbon, button, or rosette of any such badge, decoration or medal, or any colorable imitation thereof, except when authorized under regulations made pursuant to law, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both."

18 U.S.C. s.704(b) provides that for the Medal of Honor, "the offender shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both."

The existing regulations for the purchase and sale of medals appear in the Army's AR 672-8, codified at 32 Code of Federal Regulations part 507 (32 CFR 507 covers the Air Force as well), which provides in relevant part:


2.4 Articles not authorized for manufacture or sale

The following articles are not authorized for manufacture and sale, except under contract with the Defense Personnel Support Center (DPSC):


a. The Medal of Honor.
***
c. Service ribbon for the Medal of Honor.

No Navy regulations under 18 U.S.C. s. 704(a) have been promulgated. Technically, therefore, no Navy, Marine Corps or Coast Guard-specific medal or appurtenance is authorized for commercial sale.

As the current law reads, mere possession of a Medal of Honor is not banned. The FBI has confiscated Medals being offered for sale, and has prosecuted imposters for wearing the Medal and H.L.I. Lordship Industries for allegedly illegally manufacturing additional Medals of Honor and selling them to a friend of the owner of the company.

The concern raised on this and other forums before, though, is not the state of current law (although there have reportedly been cases of investigative and prosecutorial zeal in confiscating Medals not for sale but for display, for example). The concern is prospective, in that legislation has been proposed that would ban possession. The operative language:

"(1) IN GENERAL- Whoever knowingly wears, possesses, manufactures, purchases, or sells a Medal of Honor, or the ribbon, button, or rosette of a Medal of Honor, or any colorable imitation thereof, except when authorized under regulations made pursuant to law, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both."

This legislation would seem to operate as a "taking" in violation of the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, but the Federal courts have already ruled in a similar factual circumstance, when legislation was passed banning the possession of eagle feathers and the court found that to be constitutional. There is still the potential relief of "except when authorized under regulations made pursuant to law." Regulations could except current owners, but probably wouldn't provide for even legitimate collector sales (which are illegal under current law).
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Old 04-05-2003, 07:40 PM   #26
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moh

Yes, this law came about a few years ago because some losers were running around claiming to be MOH holders and in reality were not. I rmemebr them coming to the Totowa NJ militaria show and telling all the US medal dealers that they could no longer sell the MOH.

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Old 04-05-2003, 10:17 PM   #27
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This is a very sad state of affairs. I believe it is incredibly stupid on the par with out lawing cars because of drunk drivers.

To make matters worse, there are actually groups in the US that want to outlaw the owner ship of all US medals by anyone other then the soldier or family.

This is the up and down side of Free Speach. Thank God we have it as its only unpopular speach which needs to be protected.

Just my two cents,
Ed Maier

PS. Do you think that these pin heads need to think to convert oxygen to CO2 or can they do all by themselves? :-)
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Old 04-06-2003, 01:26 AM   #28
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Ed
In Australia we have a far more sensible system with regard to the highest award to Australian Forces,the Victoria Cross, and to the highest civilian award,the George Cross.Under a Government law called "The Moveable Cultural Heritage Act" no VC or GC may be exported from Australia (except by the original recipient who is free to do whatever he may wish to do with his decoration).However it is quite legal to possess and collect these awards,provided they remain in Australia at all times.Of course there are very few in collectors hands...probably no more than four or five.The bulk are in the Australian War Memorial in Canberra.This is the sensible way to regulate the preservation of our countries heritage.The US version relating to the MoH is "over the top" and frankly does little to protect the dignity of the award.For years "official" duplicates could be freely bought with no control as to who got them...hence the large number of fake MoH winners doing the rounds.There is NO WAY you can get an official issue of the VC or GC except if the recipient has lost them due to enemy action or similar circumstances.The provenance of nearly all the VCs is well documented...you can't say this about the MoH...I have read of recipients getting three issues, having them named and then giving them to family members.
We all are against the wearing of awards by people not entitled to them.But the collecting and research by honest folk simply interested in preserving their countries heritage has now been hit by the over reaction by politicians who have no idea of what they are putting up for legislation.I commend a book titled "Stolen Valor" by Burkett Whitely.You will be amazed at the number of "would be heros" who have conned their way into all levels of society.Laws such as that relating to the MoH will never stop them.They will just pop down to the PX and get a DSC or Silver Star to wear when chasing their next round of free beers.
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Old 04-06-2003, 03:46 AM   #29
Chris
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Pragmatic

I believe the Brits have the most common sense approach; it is illegal to wear medals not earned................

I do know some one who owns a Military tailors shop...she tells me that she gets loads of civvies buying replacement Medals of the bravery type which are extremely hard to earn in the UK services.

They get them mounted for wear and they do wear them on parades purporting to be ex military.

It takes all types and these people are sick sad individuals...collect yes...that’s history...wear..............never........that is stealing laurels.........

Chris
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Old 04-07-2003, 03:39 AM   #30
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One can still conclude that the current Russian law is 1) stupid, and 2) severely inhibits freedom.

Will Russia be harmed by the export of a Victory Over Germany medal???

The only thing that makes sense is to have a law aimed at keeping "natural treasures" - items of genuine cultural and historical significance - from leaving Russia - just like the Australian law.

Such a law would not afect 99.99% of the medals and orders.

Shawn

Last edited by otlichnik; 04-07-2003 at 03:43 AM.
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