That's correct, both classes can be with/without the MM. Besides I have also seen other minor variations.
Alexei
Dolf Wrote:Alexei,
It's about the fact that in my case it's the 1st Class Badge that have a MM and not the 2nd Class Badge while in the case of Danny it seems to be exactly the opposite!
Does it mean that both Classes do exist with or without the MM?
Can any of the Badges experts let me know what you think of this Badge?
Comparing it with a couple of pics of what I suppose to be an original piece I can see there are a few differences.
For example, on the obverse of this piece I'm posting, on that border tower there are 3 red parts and 2 of the same color of the background of that area.
On the other piece I believe to be authentic, there are only two red parts and two (rather one and a half) of the background color.
As for the reverse, on this piece I'm posting, the mint mark is on the very top (at 12 o'clock) of the Badge.
On the other piece I'm using as a reference to compare, the mint mark is located below the screw (at 6 o'clock).
I also realize the screwnuts are different.
Finally this piece is very light, apparently made of some cheap alloy.
As for the other piece it's told by the seller that it's made of aluminium.
For the other piece (on that well known NJ dealer's site) it's said that the identical piece is from 1964, late 60's to 1991.
Would this one be a different variation? Or it's simply a fake?
I'm no badge expert but that looks like cold enamel.
I would say that this piece is OK but from the late 80's or early 90's.
In which case it's only worth a few bucks.
Rusty.
"Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy to none." Benjamin Franklin
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Member #193
On the NJ dealer's site it's said it should be paint, so I guess not really cold or hot enamel.
It was cheap indeed so maybe I didn't waste my money after all if it's not just a cheap copy :)
11-22-2009, 04:52 AM (This post was last modified: 11-22-2009, 05:11 AM by deValcourt.)
Another "I have these for many years" story.:) (Not for the one pictured here though.)
Somebody went to the trouble of forging these, of that I am sure mainly because the handwriting on both 1st and 2nd class versions of the Excellent Border Guard badge is identical - too identical.:rolleyes:
I recently acquired a real ID for a 2nd class (the green one). I've seen these in white as well. And though the hardcover documents were forged, I do believe they were real blanks.
Which brings up the question: How many versions of these documents are out there and is this a common phenomenom with award documents?
I've seen temporary or field versions for other awards, but this is the first time I've seen a hardcover version that came along after a paper version was the norm. (At least I think it's the first time.:D)
Now that I know more about what to look for, I've been going through my voluminous amount of paper items to see what's what and I cringe when I come across something like this.:(
Besides the identical handwriting of the name of the alleged border guard, there is no date on either of these. (And one of the signatures on the 2nd class is in ballpoint pen.) Moreover, the stamps are both so light that you can't make out much except "Комитет Государ...[too light, then] CCCP." I don't recall even the KGB using "disappearing ink" for seals on documents.;)
But, unless somebody had access to some pretty sophisticated equipement to make these from scratch, I do believe the blanks were Soviet production. However, I just noticed that the hanger on the 1st class badge is tilted slightly to the right, so now I'm starting to wonder...
So the question remains: How common, if at all, was this?
I can only vouch for the authenticity of the documents I sent you. It's possible that there are multiple variation from local, not centralized, production.
Your two hardcovers could be authentic, but I'd lean towards not for the reasons you noted: tilted I Class photo, undated, and ball point pen signature. The hard back covers are easy to create from scratch in the FSU - just ask all the guys holding bad NKVD, OGPU, OO documents.
They could be good, however. For starters, both documents were awarded to the same recipient. The handwriting could be explained since they were done by the same unit clerk, however the commander's (or at least bottom) name are both different inferring that both documents would have had to be written by the same hand to the same individual, however the unit commander's changed command over a short time span. Possible, however indicating less probable.
devalcourt Wrote:Another "I have these for many years" story.:) (Not for the one pictured here though.)
Somebody went to the trouble of forging these, of that I am sure mainly because the handwriting on both 1st and 2nd class versions of the Excellent Border Guard badge is identical - too identical.:rolleyes:
I recently acquired a real ID for a 2nd class (the green one). I've seen these in white as well. And though the hardcover documents were forged, I do believe they were real blanks.
Which brings up the question: How many versions of these documents are out there and is this a common phenomenom with award documents?
I've seen temporary or field versions for other awards, but this is the first time I've seen a hardcover version that came along after a paper version was the norm. (At least I think it's the first time.:D)
Phillip
First the REAL one.
Your document is original.
Here are original docs I was awarded on my military service.
