GPW NKVD Visor Hats

[Jack D. Elmquist]

I recently read a reference in Red Army Uniforms 1918-1945 by Shalito, Savchendov, Roginsky and Tsyplenkov that the 1943 visor or peaked hats had a brick red band for officers (at least senior officers above leutenant) suggesting that lesser ranks had a red band. This makes sense to me since I see many NKVD visor hats with red bands and many officer NKVD visor hats with brick red bands. Can anyone give any further insight into this matter?

[DougD]

Hi Jack,

Welcome to the forum, hope you find it a friendly place to share info. In my experience the color on NKVD visors is the same for officers and EM's. "Brick red" vs. "red" can me different things to different makers, etc.

DougD

[Jack D. Elmquist]

Hi Doug: Actually I asked you this question a couple of years ago and you gave the same answer, but I have never been completely satisfied with it. I realize that the 1945 NKVD parade visors have a red band, but the 1943's used brick red as the color for the hat band and i have always found it as the band color for senior officers. Still, there are a lot of red bands out there with the NKVD blue bodies from WW2. I thought at first that the NKVD operational troops might have had the red bands but I think it was simply the junior officers and enlisted with the red bands. There are, of course, Budenovkas and peaked hats without gold braiding but with brick red stars and bands that look like enlisted or junior officer hats but may have have been for senior officers in 1943. This is what causes the problem. At any rate, I think the brick red means something and the reference that I mentioned makes sense to me. Thanks for your response.
Jack

[RichieC]

Perhaps you are confusing this with the 1947 pattern Militia cap with a red band...

Without going into detail, the colour combination - brick red band & piping, and cornflower crown for soldiers, sergeants, and commanders of NKVD remained unchanged from the 1920s until the 1950s.

1943 and 1945 have nothing to do with anything, and there was never a specialised "parade" visor cap.

IMO, of course...

[Jeffrey Meffert]

Or cavalry. I've seen at least one cavalry m27 sold as nkvd. Piping is different but sometimes all people see is the blue topper.

[Jack D. Elmquist]

No confusion RichieC. As collectors we have all seen legitimate WW2 NKVD visor hats with red bands. The question is do the regulations on the brick red color apply only to senior officers prior to 1945. Doug's book on WW2 parade uniforms shows 1943 NKVD parade with a brick red band and 1945 with traditional army red band. IMO the brick red in 1943 was for senior officers only but I would like to see a definitive reference. Thanks.

[Komandir RKKA]

Army never had red band on visors.
The color of visor bands changed with kind of troops but never with rank.

[Jack D. Elmquist]

We know that Army had raspbery bands, yet 1945 parade visor bands were red. I think the same was true in 1943 for NKVD senior officers which had brick red bands on their visor hats. So if I were advising a young collector I would tell him or her to look for NKVD visor hats with brick red bands and not red bands. This is my opinion only.

[Jeffrey Meffert]

Army never had red band on visors.
The color of visor bands changed with kind of troops but never with rank.

I'm not sure that's exactly true. Marshals of the Soviet union and army generals had red bands.

[RichieC]

Jack,

Speaking for myself only, I was confused for a bit, but now I think understand - It seems to me with the dates 1943 & 1945, and Doug's book that you keep referring to, we are trying to discuss headgear for Generals and Marshals - Not NKVD soldiers, NCOs, and officers.

Am I correct?