indeed you're right Eddie. But the 2 awarding systems rely on two very historical bases...Polish system is founded on 18th century awards, with a big refondation in 1918. Soviet system was entirely nwe, with a second wave of national or patriotic (or opportunist?) awards in 1943...so we must superpose a civil war blochevik order, the red banner (and its republican counterparts) and high orders like Suvorov, Kutuzov, etc...There was orders for soldiers (Glory), and for oficers (Kutuzov, etc) a bit like in the czarist system.
The prestige of polish awards relies on rarity in awarding...and on 5 classes for Virtuti, Polonia restituta. Soviet nomenclature was more or less accurate about the motives of awarding...strategical realisations, personnal courage...So maybe we could compare a Virtuti 1st class to a Souvorov 1st? yes and no, because I don't believe a Virtitu Grand cross could be received twice, though it was possible for a souvorov 1st...
I believe as you the polish system, following west-european traditions, is far from the soviet one.
Sebastien
"a spectre haunts Europe, the spectre of communism"
(a well-known german bearbed)
Sebastian,
all very good points! I think it should also be added that the awarding of a Red Banner should by no means be underestimated, this was also a prestigious award in it's own right.
I find it easier, if one has to compare Polish awards to other nations Medals and Orders according to their award system, to refer to for example French, British and to some extent American (Legion of Merit, Chief Commander, Commander etc.)
With Polish awards there is of course three main periods in time to concider, with the Exile awards if they can be counted extra, four.
What do you think?
I also think it is correct to say that there is no second awardings of the Virtuti Militari Grand Cross.
Eddie.
Everybody's equal, But some more than others!
"Those who come to us with the sword - will be killed by the sword" - Alexander Nevski
Since this section is nicely devided and each medal has proffesional caption and since I am not good at polish awards I will temporarily post the pics here and then they can be moved to seperate posts and this one can be deleted.
Here's what it is:
30 years of the PRL obverse and reverse
Gold cross of merit
Silver cross of merit
Distinguished Teacher of the PRL honorary title badge
Polonia Restituta officer's cross (III class, unless I am mistaken)
Polonia Restituta chavalier's cross (IV class)
all from PRL of course.
I'll try again to get a few more soon (and I hope I'll be succesful this time :o)
08-19-2004, 11:28 PM (This post was last modified: 08-20-2004, 01:24 AM by charlet.)
Eddie, I'd love to start my come-back to University with a work about communist awarding systems...the problematic would be how each country managed to mix national traditions and fidelity to soviet Big brother...
It would be great by comparing aesthetical aspects and politics, all traditions, events and symbols of each country...And Poland could be in my mind the most independant and original country. The most irrespectfull member of the communsit traditions, as in its awards as in its political behavior!
Poland is very very european...we must remember Imperial Russia mixed some of its awrads with old annexed Poland: Virtuti Militari, White Eagle...
It's interesting to see some kind of schizophrenia in DDR (national germanic traditions or strict copy of the Soviet Union? ), Bulgaria...And Poland would be of course the less schizophrenic counrtry of the crew because PRL take a great great part of the old 1920 republican system (Polonia Restituta, Virtuti Militari, Cross of Braves, Cross of Merit...)
sebastien
(edit because of wrong word)
Sebastien
"a spectre haunts Europe, the spectre of communism"
(a well-known german bearbed)
charlet Wrote:...So maybe we could compare a Virtuti 1st class to a Suvorov 1st? yes and no, because I don't believe a Virtitu Grand cross could be received twice, though it was possible for a souvorov 1st...
I believe as you the polish system, following west-european traditions, is far from the soviet one.
Sebastian,
The Virtitu Grand cross is the most prestigious Polish decoration. It is awarded for extraordinary military achievements. Instituted by King Stanislaw August Poniatowski on June 22, 1792, it was initially an oval gold or silver medal. Its first recipients were Prince Jozef Poniatowski and Tadeusz Kosciuszko.
Since 1809, when its was changed to a cross, it exists in five classes, these range from the Silver Cross to the Grand Cross.
In the period 1807-1815 it bore the name Military Order of the Duchy of Warsaw. In the period 1815-1832 its name was the Polish Military Order. It was abolished by the Tsar in 1832.
Restored in 1919, the Grand Cross was awarded on six occasions in the years 1920-1938, intra alia, to Marshal Jozef Pilsudski. To-day it continues to be the highest Polish decoration.
Eddie.
Everybody's equal, But some more than others!
"Those who come to us with the sword - will be killed by the sword" - Alexander Nevski
ju
I think I have managed to employ services of an expert, who agreed to shear his knowledge on polish awards. I don't know how long it will take, but it is possible, that first pieces of info will be available before the end of the month.
Al-muell Wrote:ju
I think I have managed to employ services of an expert, who agreed to shear his knowledge on polish awards. I don't know how long it will take, but it is possible, that first pieces of info will be available before the end of the month.
That's great news Al, thanks for taking the time and trouble to find an expert for us. ;)
Eddie.
Everybody's equal, But some more than others!
"Those who come to us with the sword - will be killed by the sword" - Alexander Nevski
