That is an interesting and relevant question. I have several very-low-issue service badges awarded to various early -- and I stress early, as in mid-1920s to mid-1930s, before institutional reforms like the Irreproachable Service theme -- Soviet Georgian officials. I believe that these service badges were designed and struck by/for their various agencies without any known official approval or sanction other than the agency head. For instance, I have a very striking 1926 5-Year Service badge of the Georgian People's Militia in silver, gold and black enamel, a 1931 silver and gold 10-Year Service badge from the Georgian Narkomat of Justice and a couple of others that don't show up in common catalogs.
Regarding these badges, I think that they were given to honor high-ranking officials rather than simply to anyone who made it alive through five or ten years of service. I have never heard of any statutes regarding these awards and I doubt if any existed. They are beautiful awards, to be sure. Tbilisi was a very famous jewelry and art center for ages, and they were undoubtedly made here. In fact, even Dmitri Kuchkin had a large facility here.
As to your exact question, my money would be on "whim" rather than "statute", but I admit that I don't know for sure.
Yes, there was a statute regarding the long-service awards. The Military Merit medal was awarded for 10 years, the Red Star for 15, Red Banner for 20, and Lenin for 25. That was the written rule and was normally adhered to fairly closely. There were even special citations for long service awards, most variations having a fill-in-the-blank spot at the top right hand corner for the number of years and months the person served, and the reverse was about 2/3 lined for the service history of the individual by unit and date. Hope that helps!
One other thing to note. Since I know that you've dealt in uniforms and have seen the marshals with multiple Lenins (etc.) for long service, once a recipient got to a certain level of responsibility and political (should we say?) "astuteness", then awards were awarded based on who the person was rather than on statute. BUT, that was after the normal path of long service awards had already taken place for the person. For instance, most of the MSU's received Orders of Lenin at 5 and/or 10 year intervals as an MSU, often on their birthday. Was this politically motivated? Sure. But also consider that a number of the gents (look at Ustinov, for example) held HUGE positions of responsibility for years at a time, and their birthday award was often the only award they received for the job that they did - which was probably often well justified in the "big picture".
So it is possible that a Group of Lenin, RB, Red Star and Merit Medal was awarded stricktly for years of service and that individual wouldn't have seen any combat whatsoever. Interesting.
dannybou Wrote:So it is possible that a Group of Lenin, RB, Red Star and Merit Medal was awarded stricktly for years of service and that individual wouldn't have seen any combat whatsoever. Interesting.
Absolutely! In fact, I've always tended to steer clear of groups like that, and groups like that including multiple Military Merit medals and/or OGPW2nds. Normally, those are groups to behind-the-lines officers. Of course, that's "normally" and, in the big picture, an army can't fight without those guys, but if you're looking for combat valor, it probably won't be in those groups.
At the same time, I've had a few groups with only long service awards that were quite interesting to research. One of my favorites was a long service Red Banner awarded to a Lieutenant Colonel of the Administrative Service. Boring, I know. It wasn't until a year later when I learned enough to read the back of the citation and figure out his service history... He had been a rifles officer who had fought on 22 June 1941 through July 1941, was finally surrounded, his unit wiped out, taken as a POW, escaped from the POW camp in October 1941, fought through enemy held territory, finally becoming a leader of a partisan band of escaped POWs through 1942! The only reason he was an administrative officer was that his health had deteriorated so much because of his time as a POW and partisan that he couldn't return to the front lines. An amazing story!
Sorry, I thought we were talking about very early (i.e. early post-revolution) service awards, not the authorized-by-statute awards that came later. For the early ones like the ones I mentioned, I'll stick to my previous answer until I become aware that there were statutes authorizing those awards in Georgia. I am skeptical that such statutes existed. For later, but still pre-Irreproachable Service, awards I accept the answers I have read here. I'll also acknowledge that what was the case in Georgia may not have been the case elsewhere. Certainly, whim did give way to statute.
I wish you thank you all, gentlemen, for your kind responses. Your information has been most valuable and welcome, and I am grateful for the time you took to relate it to me. And.....keep up the great work with this forum. It is ALWAYS such a pleasure to visit here!!
Bill Haskins (kabanchik)
05-02-2008, 11:05 PM (This post was last modified: 05-02-2008, 11:20 PM by EricFG.)
Funny abbreviation. :)
So I went after what I hope to be a solid silver 20 years medal.
The image below shows, on the right, my initial aquisition; what I assumed to be a nickle silver medal. And on the left is what I hope to be a solid silver medal.
The left one 'seems' to feel slightly heavier. It also shows that nice grey patina that silver should show as opposed to the white/grey of the right medal.
Another question would be my dealer has what I think are a 10 and a 15 year KGB medals. I'm not quite sure if they are T1 or T2s. Are KGB medals any more desirable/saleable than MoD medals and if so what should I expect to pay for them?
Thanks in advance.
"patina imparts character" - PJS
A wise man said: 'you should not pay a premium for what you want beyond your comfort level, and always ensure there is a mutually agreeable return policy.'
05-03-2008, 02:56 AM (This post was last modified: 05-03-2008, 03:00 AM by Kirchgoens.)
Christophe Wrote:Can someone help me with the translation ? (Name and rank of the awardee, text corresponding to the three medals...).
Can anyone explain further this document ?
In advance many thanks.
Many thanks for your comments on this Set 5.
Cheers.
Ch.
Military version of IRR Svc.
Master Seargeant Karpenko, Aleksander Efremovich
3d class awarded by a Guards Colonel (can't read name) in a unit with postal code 44033
Orders in January '67, signed February '67
2d class awarded by a Major General Sergeyev from unit postal code 26864
Orders in January '72, signed February '72
1st class awarded by a Major General Sergeyev from unit postal code 26864
Orders in January '77, signed February '77
Sometimes on Yandex.ru, you can figure out the unit from postal codes given those dates, but it is very hit and miss as these could probably change or be redesignated.
You should weigh your medals. If silver, it should be 4~5 g heavier than non-silver (from memory, Ag~21g, CuNi~16g).
Armed forces long-service medals are the most common variation. Anything else is scarce, therefore... more expensive.
True KGB long-service awards have roman numerals (X, XV, XX) on the front; if there is no roman numeral, regardless of what the seller tells you, they are not KGB.
Marc,
Thanks so very much for the help here and with the other two threads I posted last night. Your assitance is invaluable to me and I appreciate it greatly. :thumbsup
Yet another question: In The Red Book, on page 357 the Pauls show us T1 and T2 KGB medals and they state "Only Type 2 medals have the Roman numerals". Since said book's publishing has there been some clarification on the T1 vs T2 situation?
"patina imparts character" - PJS
A wise man said: 'you should not pay a premium for what you want beyond your comfort level, and always ensure there is a mutually agreeable return policy.'
