NKVD Sniper Officer's M43.

[Kim]

I was surfing the site of a well respected swedish dealer of German militaria. He has now expanded to US, UK, Swedish and Soviet militaria. One headline got my attention: "NKVD Sniper Officers M43 Service tunic". It interested me because you can't tell snipers mearly by uniform apperance in the M43. The fool that I was I thought it was a grouping with documents, badges and perhaps more.. This is what the description says:

Russian NKVD Sniper Officers M43-45 Service Tunic. Unfortunatly we don´t know to much about this tunic, is in good condition though, with some small mendings and some very small wear holes

Well... what can you say. He has a very good reputation with german stuff. But need to get more info on his Soviet.

/Kim

[charlet]

it doesn't look like 60 years old....and the board clearly shows holes for 3 stars...let's the specialsits speaking.

[vikingraider1]

That shoulderboard definately looks suspect. To me, that looks like an airforce parade shoulder board with the stars removed and insignia that was (if I am not mistaken) a collar insignia worn on the M1935 Gymnastoirka.
The mere fact that the stars have been removed would put me off this uniform straight away as it is not in orignial condition.

[Dave]

I'm not much of a uniform guy, but I can tell you that those boards are all jacked up! I may be wrong, but I'm realatively certain that the rifles are for a pre-43 rifles collar, and it's obvious that it was a former captain's board with the removal of the three lower stars. Stay away! Stay away!

--Dave

[DougD]

OK, furst, stay away from it, its junk.....its 1950's ( note that its 6 sided not wartime 5 sided), color is a bit off ( could be jpeg) and the 'rilfes' insignia ( where the guy gets the sniper term) is just added to a hole where stripped rank insignia was. Real Junk.

There was a special M1935/40 uniform for snipers in the army, red or magenta stripe down front; no special NKVD sniper uniform was made.

DougD

[otlichnik]

I agree with what Doug said.

Also, the boards have some mothing and could be genuine 1950s or so. But check out the colour in person before deciding whether they are air or NKVD.

The crossed rifles are being faked these days so be careful.

The one remaining rank star does look god 1943-mid-50s.

But overall - junk - from a dealer who was likely knows zero about Soviet uniforms and was sold it with the attached description.

I have seen (in person) a respectable (and obnoxious) London dealer buy absolute fake junk from the bag of a travelling Soviet-militaria vendor in his store. They can then sell it based on their reputation in say German or UK stuff despite knowing the square root of squat about Soviet.

Shawn

[Kim]

Yes, this is crap. I'm sorry if I didn't make this clear enough.

The fact that the dealer is a very high end dealer in German stuff (ritterkrutz groups etc. and table at MAX shows) makes this a very sad story. It's like Shawn says, guys like these can sell bad soviet stuff because the buyer knowledge is almost zero in many cases. They also have that good "German"reputation... And when you can get more for a NKVD-"fill-in-item-for-sale", things tend to easily be turned into NKVD items. Any shade of blue can be sold as state security.

The original rifle and target insignia are rare and often faked. Most fakes I have seen are pin back and "the good" ones have a screw plate. I can't say if this goes for all but has worked so far for me.

Oh.. I forgot the price, it's 375euro. :hurl

From the same dealer you can also buy:

M35 NKVD Officers Gymnastiorka Tunic.

Darkbrown cotton cloth. Patchstyle pleated breastpockets. Fold down collar piped in crimson. Red collartabs piped in crimson with single enameled rank bar for Captain/Mid Grade Official.

Crimson piping around cuffs. Bullion on red cloth State Security Personel armbadges on each arm. White cotton cloth sewn in inside of collar.

Loops for one needle badge over left breast pocket. Large blackpainted metal buttons.

Unmarked Very Rare Tunic that shows only very slight wear and is thus in exceptional condition!

Price 700euro!!!

I forgot one odd thing on this tunic. The loop above the breast pocket. Why would anybody make one of these on a Soviet tunic????? I could of course be mistaken but isn't that a typical German thing?

/Kim

[sovvisor]

Hi I agree totally with my swedish fellow collector. I want o give an other example;
Rotbannerorden, 1.Form mit vorderseitig MEHRFACHVERLEIHUNGSNUMMER"4"für vierfache Verleihung, an Schraubscheibe, sehr niedrige Verleihungsnummer"4" und Herst., möglicherweise war dieser Rotbannerorden ursprünglich ein Stück der 2.Form und das Schraubgewinde wurde nachträglich angebracht, deshalb günstig angesetzt, trotzdem sehr selten (2.14.4) € 695,00

2959 Foto Rotbannerorden, 2.Form mit vorderseitig MEHRFACHVERLEIHUNGSNUMMER"2"für zweifache Verleihung, an Bandspange, mit Verleihungsnummer und Herst., Bestzustand (2.14.6) € 130,00

2960 Foto Rotbannerorden, 2.Form mit vorderseitig MEHRFACHVERLEIHUNGSNUMMER"3"für dreifache Verleihung, an Bandspange, mit Verleihungsnummer und Herst., Bestzustand, selten (2.14.7) € 255,00

2961 Foto Rotbannerorden, 2.Form mit vorderseitig MEHRFACHVERLEIHUNGSNUMMER"4"für vierfache Verleihung, an Bandspange, mit Verleihungsnummer und Herst., Bestzustand, selten (2.14.8) € 695,00

2962 Foto Rotbannerorden, 2.Form mit vorderseitig MEHRFACHVERLEIHUNGSNUMMER"5"für fünffache Verleihung, an Bandspange, mit Verleihungsnummer und Herst., Bestzustand, sehr selten (2.14.9) € 950,00

2963 Foto Rotbannerorden, 2.Form mit vorderseitig MEHRFACHVERLEIHUNGSNUMMER"6"für sechsfache Verleihung, an Bandspange, mit Verleihungsnummer und Herst., Bestzustand, sehr selten (2.14.10) € 1.285,00 2964 Foto Rotbannerorden, 2.Form mit vorderseitig MEHRFACHVERLEIHUNGSNUMMER"7"für siebenfache Verleihung, an Bandspange, mit Verleihungsnummer und Herst., Bestzustand, extrem selten (2.14.11) € 1.795,00

Foto Orden"Für Dienst am Vaterland in den Streitkräften der UDSSR", 1.Klasse, an Schraubscheibe, mit Verleihungsnummer und Herst., mit VERLEIHUNGSBÜCHLEIN, Bestzustand, sehr selten (2.24.1) € 1.515,00 9733 Foto Orden"Für Dienst am Vaterland in den Streitkräften der UDSSR", 1.Klasse, an Schraubscheibe, mit Verleihungsnummer und Herst., mit VERLEIHUNGSBÜCHLEIN, Bestzustand, sehr selten (2.24.1) € 1.515,00

All these medal comes from one site and is almost all soviet stuff this man got. He is a very big german dealer is nazi german stuff with about 25 knightcrsses offered at the same time always. The german stuff is unbelivable and his soviet stuff is just crap. Last time i looked he had 3 motherland orders 1st class at the same time!!!
How many dealers have you seen that have up to nr 7 on the red banners?
Beware of soviet stuff from this man. If you want his name PM me and I´l send an adress. To watch images you have to have a password. It´s german law on nazi badges.


For you who don´t speak german a small dictionary;
Für Dienst am Vaterland in den Streitkräften der UDSSR= For service for the fatherland in the military forces of the USSR.

1.Klasse =Ist class

Verleihungsnummer und Herst= Issue number and maker(mint mark)

Rotbannerorden= Order of the red banner

MEHRFACHVERLEIHUNGSNUMMER"7 =Several times issued number 7( very bad translation.)

Now my conclution. I also collect german badges and medal and are quite high end there. Could I trust a dealer who buys with fakes on one hand and genuine pieces on the other?
How do you do? I my self don´t by from them at all!

Sorry I can´t post pics but the are copyright protected
Best

[otlichnik]

I love the M35 NKVD tunic ;)

Why et something that is old and worn - when you can get something that is like brand new (and in fact is brand new)!

After all who wants to buy a 65-70 year old uniform that looks old ;)

Shawn