07-27-2003, 06:17 PM (This post was last modified: 03-13-2012, 12:24 PM by CtahhR.)
I´am afraid that investigation is going take a lot of time!
But also seriously, we all know that sometimes all didn't worked as they should have to! So why not also when one filled the documents?
I just saw a picture of Ordenskaya Knizhka belong to admiral N.N. Amelko. The picture was in Ordenskaya Knizhka -magazine (nro. 200301,page 96).
The picture is not very clear, but you can see very well that there are no photo or no "valid without photo" -stamp and no Amelko´s signature. And that is admiral´s Ordenskaya Knizhka! Admiral Amelko has got Nakhimov 1st class, Nakhimov 2nd class and so on!!!
I have no reason to doubt that the picture is not real, so that makes "the mystery of the not stamped-documents" in a higher level.
(picture from Ordenskaya Knizhka -magazine ):
there is stamp and signature in Amelko´s Ordenskaya Knizhka because they were printed a stamp and a facsimile signature.
I am not sure if all the booklets are made like that, but I have never seen any with original (= not printed) signature and stamp. Maybe some person in very high position has got that kind of booklet?
So I think that if there are no holder's signature and no stamps man must be a little bit aware, but if there nothing on the awards detailed-pages... that's a new thing !?!
And if the signature and stamp are original (=not printed), that must be a very rare Ordenskaya Knizhka.
03-17-2004, 12:26 AM (This post was last modified: 03-17-2004, 12:34 AM by Taz.)
I found this article on award Docs officially issued without a photo and thought it might be of interest.
Have you ever seen the certificate of a Hero of Socialist Labor with, instead of a photograph of the holder, the officially authorized statement "valid without photograph"? A certificate like that was presented to Major General Pavel Mikhaylovich Zernov, first chief of KB-11 [Design Bureau 11], which was to become the basis of the "closed" city of Arzamas-16, also known as Arzamas-75, Shatki-1, and Moscow-Center 300.
The manufacturers of our nuclear weapons had many pseudonyms, but only one aim. It was not only individuals who were hidden from immodest eyes. Entire cities were shoved into "mail boxes." Present-day Russia has inherited 10 such cities from the former medium machine building sector: Arzamas-16, Krasnoyarsk-26, Penza-19, Chelyabinsk- 70, Sverdlovsk-44, Tomsk-7, Chelyabinsk-65, Zlatoust-36, Krasnoyarsk-45, and Sverdlovsk-45. Their 736,000 inhabitants are under the tutelage of the Russian Federation Ministry of Atomic Energy to this day.
Eddie.
Everybody's equal, But some more than others!
"Those who come to us with the sword - will be killed by the sword" - Alexander Nevski
Looking through a group I’ve had for a while I noticed something disconcerting. The booklet was printed in 1945 (Variation 3, date printed on the back page), yet the first date in the booklet is 1942 (Reading McDaniel it’s the “date the recipient is authorized privileges”). The date the booklet was issued is 1946.
Reading McDaniels, however, I notice that the Variation 3 booklet on p. 392 has the same issue. The variation was printed in 1944-1946, yet the booklet has a “privileges” date of 1943. (It has an issue date of 1948.)
Is this a non-issue, meaning that an awardee would get the booklet well after the awards, and the privileges were “back dated?” That’s my thought, but wanted to float it out amongst the experts here. Thanks as always!
Your hero was granted the award in DEC '42 with a temporary document, the privileges began the 1st of the following month (JAN 43?). The award booklet you have was then written out at a military commissariat when he went home after demobilization ('47-'48). Usually the temporary doc was traded in for the hardcover red one you now have.
The booklet came from the Baku area, so the Arabic name, Akhmed Abdul, is no surprise.
Can anyone help me understand the dates listed?
I've looked through all the back posts in the Paper Items forum, but can't find any basic informaiton on how these awards booklets were used.
The Mondvor web site has several illustrations of similiar booklets for various ODMs (one is shown in the Order of the Red Star section), but unfortunately for me, I can't read enough Russian to understand what is probably pretty novice information.
The first date is the Ukaz date on which the award was granted. The second one is the date the booklet was issued, in this case a few years after the facts.
Is the "Ukaz" date like a general orders date, that is, a broad order that establishes the award for a particular set of cirmstances and covers many possible recipients?
Or is it that actual date on which this particular award was granted to the individual named in the booklet, that is, the date of his individual award order?
Also, just based on observations, I'm assuming that this type of award booklet is only post-war. Is this correct, and if yes, what is the year range that these types of booklets were used?
I have another, same type of booklet, in much better condition, but it is also dated 1946 for the issue date.
