Order "Georgi Dimitrov".

[new world]

Dietrich,

Thanks a lot for the variations of the Dimitrov!

I came across this variation that really does not match any of the ones that you posted - the hole is on the bottom of the reverse.

What do you think of it?

The holes are there for a reason.

Earlier rare emissions were made out of solid gold (weight 66 grams), while later emissions orders were hollow (33 grams weight).

That's right - the awards were empty inside and holes were used in the process of soldering two pieces together.

Best regards,

William

Originally posted by d-riemer
... I do not understand the meaning of the little holes on the back since they are not rivet holes. The order is coined from one piece. Perhaps the location of the hole is not important for the manufacturing process and might get changed occasionally.

...

[d-riemer]

Here are some details of the hollow Dimitrov Order (weight 30 gram) that show the two-part seam-sealed construction.

The coined front of the order is sealed off with a flat back plate. The holes through the back of the order are added as vent or blow holes. When you heat a hollow assembly during seam sealing, the gases inside expand, lifting the cover and preventing a bond unless the gas can escape. The microscopic picture of a vent hole through the back of a Dimitrov Order (upper right) allows to see the thickness of the back plate.

The upper-left picture taken on an early version of the 2-part Dimitrov shows the seam and even some gaps in the seam. On this two-part Dimitrov, vent holes through the back plate would not have been necessary. However, the manufacturing process was getting better over time and the vent holes became more and more important. Late issues show hardly any seam.

The first-type, solid 63-gram Dimitrov Order has a single blind hole on the back (bottom picture). It was most likely used to insert an electrode for the brazing/welding of the hanger ring. This blind hole is always placed close to the ring.

The engineers at the Bulgarian Mint probably received an order themselves for saving about 33 gram of 14-karat gold on each Dimitrov Order by introducing the hollow construction.

[DougD]

What was the first year this order was issued?

Yes, the Paul and Paul book is great, did a great service for medals colelcting. We had high hopes the Webster / Nelson book would do the same for uniforms, but it was so lacking in real info that it did not have that effect.

DD

[Dave]

Originally posted by DougD
What was the first year this order was issued?

According to Boyan Savov and Angel Garbatchkov in "Bulgarian Communist Titles Orders and Medals 1945-2002" the order was instituted on 17 June 1950, and during it's awarding period (1950 through 1989) it was awarded approximately 4000 times.

--Dave

[Tal Inbar]

BTW, order of Dimitrov was sold on ebay a few days ago for.....$192.78 !

[charlet]

just to come back to our thread gentlemen...a friend of mine bought an order of Dimitrov...to a french pro seller I don't like much (sells screwback lenins in bronze or castmetal for genuine...).
In box, with miniature. What pushed my (experimented) friend to take the risk were 2 mintmarks:one on the left of the medal loop (like a "8", 8 carats?) and on the bottom of teh right collar just to the limit of teh character and the white enamel line.
Of course, the piece had its 2 holes, no traces of meta (scratching ok, no metal inside)...
Dietrich, Alexei (I know you have one piece) could you please confirm or infirm me?
I didn't know bulgarian mint used to mintmark their pieces...

[d-riemer]

Charlet,
Bulgaria issued official replicas of gold orders for daily wear. The wearer's copies were coined on the actual press but not made of gold. The recipient of an order supposedly had to ask (perhaps even pay) for a replica, did not receive it automatically.

I have seen the official replicas of the Hero Star and they do have a mintmark "R". I have not seen the official replica of the Dimitrov Order, which does exist, and your friend's order might be such a replica. The mintmark on the loop could be this "R".

The other mark at the end of the collar seems to be an "OH". Probably the initials of the engraver. This lettering exists on all Dimitrov Orders.

Since the official replicas or wearer's copies of the Dimitrov Order are quite rare, they may be just as expensive as the real thing.

[charlet]

thanks Dietrch. The 2nd mark is well "OH", but I'm convinced on the loop there're numbers, at least a clearly readable "8".

the question of fake orders of dimitrov is pertinent?
Thanks for yours infos! sebastien

[d-riemer]

Sebastien,
I checked about the replica of the Dimitrov Order. The "R" is embossed on the back. They sell for up to $125.

I have seen "583" as mintmark on the back of the 14-karat Bulgarian Hero Star, however not on any Dimitrov orders. Considering the limited space on the loop of the order, maybe the center " 8 " is all that can be placed.

Your are right, the order is somewhat suspicious. Have some Bulgarian orders now reached the status of Soviet orders as candidates to be faked?

[charlet]

thanks for your infos about official repros, this highly interesting.

now, such very high awards of Bulgaria eligible for becoming fakes, why not? and the finition of Sophia mint is not always perfect, could it be a way for fakers to be allowed to say: this is not a fake, it has the same defalts as the originals...now, we know a bad finition and défaults of originals are very hard to reproduce. Lapa told me a few days ago there was no reason bulgaria wouldn't interest fakers.

The mention about 583 is highly interesting too: I saw today my friend's exemplar: I confirm for the "OH" on the collar. On the loop I'm convinced to have read (only X5 loop) "83" with hardly space for the "3"...the friend has a 14k-hollow type...

the miniature is very heavy for its dimensions: silver?

sebastien