Very good points raised by all of you... I did not think opening such a debate in posting what just seemed to me a non-rational increase (cf. Order for Personal Courage price).
Marc (Lapa) is totally right with his remark about the few room let for rationality in the collecting hobby; I could simply not see how this new increased price could make this piece (unsold for 2 years) sold more rapidly... :confused: I still can't see it...
A few points, in my opinion :
* This market (the Soviet awards collecting one) is young. It really began - on a real market scale - around 13 years ago. I' m not sure it is still regulated.
* This market has today an oligopolistic structure. It certainly does not help to make it regulated.
* We still can see some "curious" deals (with "curious" values or prices) that we can't see anymore in our national awards markets for example.
A remark : just look at the actual process of Soviet awards reexported to Russia, where they are sold for higher prices than in the Us or Europe (lack of "official" offer, and growing demand probably originating from the move of the Russian policy regarding former Soviet emblems and symbols...).
* There are in fact several markets in it, with different levels of concern :
1.
The top end items values and prices will always be subject to specific rules, sometimes non rational. These pieces are expensive, and will always remain. And their real value is in fact only the one we are OK to give them. Hence, the last piece missing in your collection will always have more value (and you will be ready to pay more for it) than some other ones you found more easily. They are quite rare, and if we accept to play the game, we play it.
The point is that with all those fakes flooding, the prices of real pieces only can grow up... The certificates, the dealers reputation and trust, all this has a price.
Maybe I will shock some of you, but pragmatism has to prevail. You want this rare order ? You know the value it has for you ? You can afford the proposed price ? It seems consistant with "your" value ? So, buy it !! (You can try to negociate meanwhile
). If you think it is not your current priority, so let it for a future occasion... Knowing that, maybe, it will not happen again...
The point is, as said, that many of us will only buy such a piece from time to time. It certainly slows the market down. The dealers would now have to take their own responsibilities (with regard to their stocks...). But there will alawys be a demand for such top end pieces... whatever their price.
2.
The "normal" and "classic" pieces, the basic and current stuff.
I personally find the situation more problematic. To make a long story short, even the very current to current Soviet pieces see their prices grow up. That's a real concern, as there is no real reason for this. Let's just compare with cheap prices practiced for "basic" medals of Germany (TR, DDR) or France for example.
The prices of these Soviet "basic" pieces have to remain low. It is logical. It is for the benefit of both the collectors and dealers.
But are we (all of us, collectors and dealers) rational ?
Just my thoughts.
Another example seen at a well known NJ Soviet dealer :
" Researched group of 2 decorations and 10 documents to Col. General Terentiy Shtykov, de facto commander of the clandestine Soviet army in North Korea and Soviet ambassador to North Korea during the Korean War, also ambassador to Hungary in 1959-60. Includes his WW2 issue Order of Suvorov 1st cl. and Order of Kutuzov 1st cl.
Decorations:
Order of Suvorov, 1st cl., Type 2, Var. 2, #257, November 1944 issue; Order of Kutuzov, 1st cl., Type 2, Var. 3, #775, September 1945. Both awards are in excellent condition. Order of Kutuzov comes with McDaniel certificate of authentication showing excellent 8 out of 10 condition rating. "
Was $119,000.00... Now is $124,000.00 !! (+4.2%).
Ch.
Marc (Lapa) is totally right with his remark about the few room let for rationality in the collecting hobby; I could simply not see how this new increased price could make this piece (unsold for 2 years) sold more rapidly... :confused: I still can't see it...
A few points, in my opinion :
* This market (the Soviet awards collecting one) is young. It really began - on a real market scale - around 13 years ago. I' m not sure it is still regulated.
* This market has today an oligopolistic structure. It certainly does not help to make it regulated.
* We still can see some "curious" deals (with "curious" values or prices) that we can't see anymore in our national awards markets for example.
A remark : just look at the actual process of Soviet awards reexported to Russia, where they are sold for higher prices than in the Us or Europe (lack of "official" offer, and growing demand probably originating from the move of the Russian policy regarding former Soviet emblems and symbols...).
* There are in fact several markets in it, with different levels of concern :
1.
The top end items values and prices will always be subject to specific rules, sometimes non rational. These pieces are expensive, and will always remain. And their real value is in fact only the one we are OK to give them. Hence, the last piece missing in your collection will always have more value (and you will be ready to pay more for it) than some other ones you found more easily. They are quite rare, and if we accept to play the game, we play it.
The point is that with all those fakes flooding, the prices of real pieces only can grow up... The certificates, the dealers reputation and trust, all this has a price.
Maybe I will shock some of you, but pragmatism has to prevail. You want this rare order ? You know the value it has for you ? You can afford the proposed price ? It seems consistant with "your" value ? So, buy it !! (You can try to negociate meanwhile
). If you think it is not your current priority, so let it for a future occasion... Knowing that, maybe, it will not happen again...The point is, as said, that many of us will only buy such a piece from time to time. It certainly slows the market down. The dealers would now have to take their own responsibilities (with regard to their stocks...). But there will alawys be a demand for such top end pieces... whatever their price.
2.
The "normal" and "classic" pieces, the basic and current stuff.
I personally find the situation more problematic. To make a long story short, even the very current to current Soviet pieces see their prices grow up. That's a real concern, as there is no real reason for this. Let's just compare with cheap prices practiced for "basic" medals of Germany (TR, DDR) or France for example.
The prices of these Soviet "basic" pieces have to remain low. It is logical. It is for the benefit of both the collectors and dealers.
But are we (all of us, collectors and dealers) rational ?
Just my thoughts.
Another example seen at a well known NJ Soviet dealer :
" Researched group of 2 decorations and 10 documents to Col. General Terentiy Shtykov, de facto commander of the clandestine Soviet army in North Korea and Soviet ambassador to North Korea during the Korean War, also ambassador to Hungary in 1959-60. Includes his WW2 issue Order of Suvorov 1st cl. and Order of Kutuzov 1st cl.
Decorations:
Order of Suvorov, 1st cl., Type 2, Var. 2, #257, November 1944 issue; Order of Kutuzov, 1st cl., Type 2, Var. 3, #775, September 1945. Both awards are in excellent condition. Order of Kutuzov comes with McDaniel certificate of authentication showing excellent 8 out of 10 condition rating. "
Was $119,000.00... Now is $124,000.00 !! (+4.2%).
Ch.
