Re-issued awards

[Dave]

William,

I had never heard or read anything about officers rehabilitated in 1940-41 receiving their original awards back. By the way, how many of them were actually rehabilitated during this period, I'd be curious of knowing.

Marc

Marc-

I was once offered a group to a former Colonel who was purged in 1937, and rehabilitated at the beginning of the War as a rifleman! This group contained several early/mid 1930's awards, in addition to several awards that he earned during the War. The 1930's awards were his original ones; confiscated and then re-awarded to him during the War. Unfortuantely, the fellow offering the group got a better offer for it and I lost out... :cry:

--Dave

[Lapa]

Thanks Dave, and really too bad for that group. I bet it was one in a million.

Marc

[Chuck In Oregon]

Marc

You wrote " ... the fact that, for instance, people awarded with the Order of the Red Banner of the RSFSR (screwback) who were repressed, received upon rehabilitation a brand new Order ...". You didn't present that as an opinion or conjecture, but as a fact. Your word, not mine.

Then you wrote "I can't seem to find where in my statement I wrote, or even implied, a sense of "always"". You said it was a fact. Now you say it isn't "always" a fact?

From m-w.com:

Fact
5 : a piece of information presented as having objective reality
- in fact : in truth

My real-life experience contradicts your "fact". What you stated as a fact was not always the case and, therefore, not a fact. Your statement was conjecture, not fact.

Also from m-w.com:

Conjecture
2 a : inference from defective or presumptive evidence b : a conclusion deduced by surmise or guesswork c : a proposition (as in mathematics) before it has been proved or disproved

I often indulge in conjecture when I study this field. I try not to present my conjectures as facts.

Chuck

[Lapa]

Chuck,

And here we go again, with English speakers taking everything to the dot without any allowance for non English-speaking natives' language limitations.
Keep up the good work, and this will surely end up an English-speaking natives' forum only for discussion of the finer points of the English language, grammar and etiquette. I am not sure if this is a conjecture or a fact, but it sure is my forecast.

Marc

PS: thank you for the grammar lesson, I'll attempt to cram that somewhere in my neurones.

[Dave]

From the moderator:

Marc, Chuck... Cool it. I know you both and you're both good people. Just settle down and let it blow over. A miscommunication doesn't need to become an altercation.

Thanks.

--Dave

[new world]

Chuck,
I had never heard or read anything about officers rehabilitated in 1940-41 receiving their original awards back. By the way, how many of them were actually rehabilitated during this period, I'd be curious of knowing.

Marc

Marc,

examples are numerous - Rokossovsky being the most famous one.

Then there's Marshal Kulick (although not 1940 rehabilitation, but he did get his awards back when re-instates in General rank).

William

[Doug]

Here's a later example pertaining to a Cavalier of the Order of Glory. At the bottom of his award card is the following :

Note: Deprived of the right to possess awards by a decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet dated 4 July 1949. Right reinstated by a decree of the Supreme Soviet dated 26 February 1975.

I have no details on why his orders were taken away but he definitely got them back and was subsequently given a cavalier booklet.

Hope to see some of you guys at the Max next weekend.

Doug (the other one)