I really don't have any moral qualms about collecting what I collect. In fact, I feel that it is to the advantage of these award groups that I buy them, as they will be well cared for and researched as much as possible. By putting many of my groups up on my website, that is the only reminder that we have of someone's life, as they may well be forgotten to everyone, including their families. I feel that I'm doing a service to them, and memorializing the sacrifices that they made for their country.
I've never purchased any Soviet items directly from a veteran or their family. However, I have purchased US militaria from families, and most of the time, they are more than happy to part with it, as they never knew that there was someone actually interested in their dad's/grandad's 'junk'.
Just last week I was at a local thirft store when I saw a woman walk in with an armload of US Navy uniforms. I collect US Navy admiral uniforms, and I noticed that out of the bottom of the stack was a Service Dress Blue uniform with the rank of two-star! I quickly asked her if she was going to donate the uniforms to the thrift store, to which she replied, 'why yes I am'. I told her that I'd buy the dress blue jacket immediately (I was jumping all over myself by this point...) She motioned for me to come out to her car. In her car was the admiral's other set of dress blue uniforms, and probably several dozen others. When she found out that I collected admiral uniforms, she gave me all that I could carry! She was the admiral's wife, and just wanted to get all 'those old uniforms' out of her closets! She was overjoyed that someone actually gave them a good home.
So, do I have a bad feeling about what I did? By no means! Had I not grabbed everything, it would have gotten all split up and gone its separate ways in the thrift store (and this admiral was actually quite famous!)
Applying this to Soviet militaria, I don't think that every group has a checkered past. Yeah, I may have the slight twinge (of jealousy more than anything!) that my contacts can get some beautiful groups for about a 1/10th of what they sell them to me for, but hey- that's the way this hobby works!
Thanks Dave for supporting me.
BTW, I don’t see any crime buying medals even from a veteran or his/her family. If they sell their awards, they need money to buy something more important (it can be even food). It means that these awards are not important for them at this time as it was before. It’s possible after the collapse of USSR and change of people’s mind. You are not stealing them from veterans. You are buying with the goal to save them, not to destroy.
I was collecting stamps all my life living in USSR. I had several stands at the Stamps Exhibitions showing parts of my collection. I have no doubts that many of collectors of medals of USSR would proudly present their collections to the public if they have a chance. I am not sure if such Exhibitions exist. I remember one of our threads, where many of us showed their ways of framing their medals and keeping them in safe places. Is not this great?
...I was with contacts in Moscow. Not bad guys, but one of the methods thay had in finding these old uniforms was locating relatives in the Moscow area of old Generals and Marshals. As they tend not to move, or throw stuff away, it could be a gold mine.
Well, we were "hunting" a family member of Air Marshal Voroshekin, one of the first Red Air Marshals ( 1944). We found her house right outside Moscow, and after a bit of talking (I could not follow it), she came out with this ratty, beat up uniform that I later found out was sitting on the closet floor of this dacha. It was moldy, had water damage, etc. Well, it was his M1945 Victory Parade uniform, the one he wore the parade itself. As WWII uniform collectors would know, Air Marshals had light blue collar and cuffs and their partade uniforms are super rare (from WWII). I spent 2 years resoting this uniform, cleaning it, removing the mold from the real gold embroidery, etc. It came out quite well and was one of my favorite uniforms. Its now in one of the largest collections of WWII Generals uniforms with a colelctor who is very happy to have it and takes very good care of it.
Should I feel guilty about this? Did I "rob" from Russia? No Way ! The uniform might not be alive, but I think I rescued a bit of red history, no matter where it resides now.
You are right Doug.
Unfortunately the history of USSR has its sequence: destroying everything what is from different time (1917, 1933, Perestroika, collapse of Soviet Union, etc). Every new president destroyed previous one totally. Every new regime destroyed previous one.
I think that saving pieces of the history of any country is a good think. I think that Russian people should be proud that pieces of their history, which they did not care for, saved in the US or other countries in the world. I don’t see anything wrong with this.
Going up in smoke: Soviet passports are incinerated in Vladivostok after their owners acquired new Russian passports. All citizens must obtain new identity documents by 1 January 2004.
Museum of the legendary First Cavalry Army of Civil War was recently robbed. The commander of the Army was future Marshal Budenny and museum hosted not only items from the history of the First Cavalry Army, but also many personal belongings of Budenny.
Security in the museum was minimum and thieves had no problem breaking in. Stolen items include:
- two Marshal Budenny uniforms,
- Budenny fur cavalry coat,
- several silver decorated sabers,
- dagger,
- various weapons.
According to the officals, the most valuable items were kept in the safe and robbers couldn't take them.
I guess soon some of the Budenny's items will be for sale...
Wouldn't it be very hard to sell something like this?
It's not like you can advertise it...
Any thoughts?
Rusty.
"Be civil to all, sociable to many, familiar with few, friend to one, enemy to none." Benjamin Franklin
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Member #193
Not necessary, items like these are never advertized. Dealers know potential buyers and once something comes for sale - the deal is finalized in private negotiations...
I suspect that most of the high-end awards and uniforms were stolen at some point. Items that belonged to the high ranking military leaders were mostly kept in the museums and often found their way to the collectors market via robbery or by bribing museum staff.
The stuff is probably already in some collection of some rich unscrupulous mafioso. It was most likely already sold before the break in. I could be wrong but this stuff has much of it's value in the fact that Budenny wore it. Selling this could present a problem if you don't have a safe way to turn it into cash after the break in. Or it could be small time criminals that did it because it was an easy job getting it....
I don't know anything about this stuff but I can speak about other high end stuff. Not all of it is stolen.
While some high end items or items belonging to famous people were in private collections even in the Soviet era much was kept in museums, all of which were of course part of the USSR state until 1991.
There were many, many museums scattered throughout the USSR from small to large. Indeed almost every town and organization (major factory, institute or military unit) had a museum or museum room.
After 1991 the situtaton changed. First, according to the succession laws state assets, such as museums, belonged to the successor state. Thus all museums and their contents in say Ukraine were now property of the Ukrainian government. Many of the successor states are not very interested in preserving their USSR era heritage and there have been full closures and liquidations of even major museums.
Secondly, even in Russia funding has dried up and many of the smaller museum have closed sometimes selling off their collection.
So while it is certain that much high end stuff has found its way out of the back door of still extant museums much has also been sold off legitimately by other museums.
You also get the problem of who can sell off a museum's collection. When an authorized individual (say museum director) sells off an item yet pockets the proceeds and makes no official entry of the sale then you have a crime but also an innocent buyer.
She motioned for me to come out to her car. In her car was the admiral's other set of dress blue uniforms, and probably several dozen others. When she found out that I collected admiral uniforms, she gave me all that I could carry! She was the admiral's wife, and just wanted to get all 'those old uniforms' out of her closets! She was overjoyed that someone actually gave them a good home. 
