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j h beers Wrote:Have any of you seen a soviet era government-produced reference book that shows their sub badge with a gold finish? I've owned several "official" books (rather than collector guides) and they consistently show a silver or grey colored badge - usually with descriptions that seem to indicate that the sub badge was for commanders only (unlike the movie version of Hunt for Red October, where almost every crew member seemed to wear one).
Jim
I don't know what you mean by "Soviet era government-produced reference book", can you mention an example of one?
Because I believe that what most of us collectors use are simply as good as possible reference books commonly accepted as such, and I'm not aware of "government-produced" ones!
Anyway, would this one count as an acceptable reference book?
"Breast Badges of the Red Army, 1941-1945" by B.V. Airapetyan, in Russian, Moscow 2004, "highly recommended" (his words) by a well known NJ major dealer?
At least in this book there are pics of a few of these Badges, including gold finish and silver finish colors...
Unless these are pics of "fakes", I don't know as I don't own the book.
Dolf
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I have that book ;)
From what I can see and read around, these sub badges were made in the 1940's and a restrike in the mid 1980's.
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For almost twenty years, I've been buying every book that I can find that deals with soviet and/or imperial Russian orders, medals, badges, etc. (Last summer I nosed around all sorts of book stores in Moscow and St. Petersburg looking for anything I don't already own but w/o success.)
Let's put it this way: I will believe that there was an official gold finished soviet sub badge (and not just a brass badge with the silvering polished away) when someone shows me a pre-1991 Russian-printed reference book that proves that they existed. I've got nothing at stake here and would be delighted to see a non-collector or dealer produced reference printed before the demise of the erstwhile Evil Empire that shows that gold colored sub badges were an officially authorized and issued item in the Soviet Navy.
Jim
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j h beers Wrote:For almost twenty years, I've been buying every book that I can find that deals with soviet and/or imperial Russian orders, medals, badges, etc. (Last summer I nosed around all sorts of book stores in Moscow and St. Petersburg looking for anything I don't already own but w/o success.)
Let's put it this way: I will believe that there was an official gold finished soviet sub badge (and not just a brass badge with the silvering polished away) when someone shows me a pre-1991 Russian-printed reference book that proves that they existed. I've got nothing at stake here and would be delighted to see a non-collector or dealer produced reference printed before the demise of the erstwhile Evil Empire that shows that gold colored sub badges were an officially authorized and issued item in the Soviet Navy.
Jim
With such a large collection of reference books I was only hoping you to give us one single example of what you call a "soviet era government-produced reference book".
I believe I never mentioned a real GOLD finish piece, or even SILVER. All I know is that some have that yellow/goldish color others that silver color but honnestely I have no idea what is the metal they are made of! Indeed, most probably brass I guess!
Dolf
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dannybou Wrote:I have that book ;)
From what I can see and read around, these sub badges were made in the 1940's and a restrike in the mid 1980's.
Danny,
I see you're increasing your collection of reference books, great! ;)
What do you think of this one I mentioned? How would you rate it, from 0 to 10 ? Would you recommend it? Can you please elaborate a bit?
Thanks a lot,
Dolf
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I've had books printed by Isvestia, the DOSSAF organization, and something called the Moscow "Military Publisher," and others. Considering how much free enterprise there was in the Soviet Union, I think that publications like those can be regarded at least as "government approved"...
Jim
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Dolf
Yes I now have quite a few books on Soviet badges which I bought from Russia, much to my wife's chagrin :)
"Breast Badges of the Red Army, 1941-1945" by B.V. Airapetyan, in Russian, Moscow 2004" is a good reference for WW2 badges but not much else. All the excellent tankman, artilleryman, mortarman, pontooner etc... are listed as well as Soviet Guards and these sub badges. The photos are superb but the scope of it is pretty limited to that time period and those badges I mentionned. The plus of this book is that all different variations are pictured along with reverses and nuts. If you're into badges quite a bit (like me) then I do suggest it, but don't limit yourself to only this book.
As for the sub badges mentionned in this thread, as I said, there was a restrike in 1987 IIRC.
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Upon rereading your earlier post, it only now occurs to me that perhaps you feel that a guy with only twenty-odd posts on this forum doesn't know what he's talking about. If you think I'm talking through my hat, I'll be happy to send you photocopies of some of the title pages...
Jim
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j h beers Wrote:Upon rereading your earlier post, it only now occurs to me that perhaps you feel that a guy with only twenty-odd posts on this forum doesn't know what he's talking about. If you think I'm talking through my hat, I'll be happy to send you photocopies of some of the title pages...
Jim What are you talking about?? Nobody here is making any such allusions??? The number of posts is simply irrelevant. We are discussing Soviet submarine badges.
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Danny,
I guess Jim was talking to me... :p
But I do agree 100% with you, I thought we were talking Soviet Sub Badges here :rolleyes: and indeed the number of posts is certainly not relevant!
I also thought it was a policy of this Forum that the members justify their opinions rather than only making statements that don't prove much, so that's why I've asked Jim to name just one of the reference books he mentions, so we can all learn.
Jim,
Thank you for your kind offer of sending photocopies to me, but as I'm not selfish I'd prefer you to just name one of your books here for all of us to learn from your knowledge, as I asked before.
Dolf
PS: Danny, I've just sent you a email, as your PM box seems to be full :)
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