dannybou Wrote:So it is possible that the screwnut on my badge is original to the badge??
Danny,
IMHO, as I mention on my Post #58 to Alexei, I believe your screwnut is an original Monetny Dvor screwnut, but never saw a Halhingol Badge with one of these screwnuts before, and have only seen them on that Best Herdsman Badge! My Mongolian expert friend confirmed exactly this, that as far as he knows, Halhingol Badges don't originally have those screwnuts and that this screwnut might most probably be from a Best Herdsman Badge!
Anyway, who am I to confirm or deny it being 100% sure? Don't forget I'm just a collector, expressing these opinions from my limited experience and reproducing the opinions of a Mongolian expert friend, who might also be wrong btw!
I have three Herdsman Badges of the J 02 Type (if using Dr. Battushig's book as a reference) or M 45.1 (if using Herfurth 4t edition Catalogue as a reference), two mirror-reverse and one flat-reverse, from which I'm posting pics of the screwnuts on my next Post (in a moment as I only need to scan them), with weights and measures for you to compare if that helps. I also will post pics of my two Halhingol Badges screwnuts. You already have the weights and measures of these two, that I posted on Post #46 of this thread.
Dolf, here are the images of the Halhingol badges, silver plated, made of bronze. Notice the reverse. The nut is Monetnyi Dvor and look at the marks on the reverse? A large screw. This nut is different than mine, but it is a large nut. These photos were taken from a Soviet badge collecting website. If you want the link, let me know and I'll PM it to you.
- Screwnut of my Best Herdsman Badge (or Best Herder as Dr. Battushig calls it) mirror-reverse, with S/N 3344.
Diameter: 24,66mm
Weight: 7,40gr
- Screwnut of my Best Herdsman Badge mirror-reverse, with S/N 3345 (yes, I was lucky to find two Badges with S/Ns one right after the other, even if I only found this 2nd one quite a few months after I bought the 1st one! Not a one in a million "coup de chance", but still lucky!)
Diameter: 24,74mm
Weight: 7,70gr
(So as you may notice two screwnuts from the same Type of Badges, with S/Ns following one another, there is still some tiny differences in weight and measures!)
- Screwnut of my Best Herdsman Badge flat-reverse, with S/N 4450 (Honnestely I have no idea at all if this is the right screwnut for this Badge! It's completely different from the two previous ones!)
Diameter: 32,10mm
Weight: 10,10gr
- Screwnut of another Type of these Badges, called by Dr. Battushig "The Outstanding State animal range-herder". This one is not serial numbered.
On his book he lists two types or variations of this Badge, J 04 and J 04b. I never really understood the real difference between these two, but from the pics I believe mine is J 04b. On Herfurth Catalogue, only one of these is listed, M 45.3, and as the others above it's also called "Distinguished Herdsman of the MPR". I'm also posting a pic of the Badge itself.
I also have no idea at all if this screwnut is the right one for this Badge!
Diameter: 18,90mm
Weight: 4,05gr
Hope this can help, buddy!
Will post pics of the screwnuts of my two Halhingol Badges right after posting these.
dannybou Wrote:Dolf, here are the images of the Halhingol badges, silver plated, made of bronze. Notice the reverse. The nut is Monetnyi Dvor and look at the marks on the reverse? A large screw. This nut is different than mine, but it is a large nut. These photos were taken from a Soviet badge collecting website. If you want the link, let me know and I'll PM it to you.
Danny,
I believe I know that site, anyway please PM me the link so I can check and confirm.
Don't you/they have a detailed pic of the scewnut alone and visible 100%?
Yes, I notice the marks on the reverse of the Badge, but imho that doesn't mean that the original screwnut had that size! It could simply have been lost7damaged by the original owner who might have used a different one as replacement!
For example on the Badges I mention above, that J 04b has that small screwnut because it's the one it came with when I bought it, but on the reverse it has marks of a larger screwnut that might have been used before!
And on my flat-reverse Best Herdsman Badge, the marks on the reverse match the size of that large screwnut it has, but imho I'm not sure at all this is the right screwnut for that Badge as previously mentioned!
As for my Halhingol Badges, the mirror-reverse has no screwnut marks whatsoever on the reverse, and the flat-reverse has a very light screwnut mark, almost unperceivable, that matches exactly the size of the screwnut it came with!
After collecting Mongolian awards for a few years wrong screwnuts don't surprise me at all anymore, as I said before, and Jan seems to agree, that happens all the time! I'm convinced that when most Mongolian dealers I had/have bought stuff from have to ship their stuff, if the piece has no screwnut on it, they simply grab the 1st one that they find and put it on that piece! If it happens with me and Jan, I guess it happens with everyone else they sell to, dealers or collectors! :(
Best wishes, and a Very Happy New Year!
dannybou Wrote:Your screwnut on the right looks like the one in post 63.
Danny,
That's why it would be great to have a detailed pic as well as the right size and measures of that one. ;)
Btw, I just found this pic of the reverse of a Halhingol mirror-reverse Badge, with this peculiar screwnut, which I see for the very 1st time!
So apparently everything is possible with these Mongolian awards! ;)
Of the 30,000 troops on the Japanese side, 8440 were killed and 8766 wounded. The Red Army committed 57,000 infantry, 498tanks, and 346 armoured cars to the battle, and claimed total losses (killed and wounded) of 9284 men. After the collapse of Soviet Union documents about the battle changed the numbers considerably, the actual number of losses in the battle was 23,926,of whom 6,831 killed, 1,143 reported missing, 15,952 wounded. While the Red Army did win the battle, it was not a one sided battle as previously believed.
As far as I'm concerned I wish to thank you for this valuable and interesting info that only makes this great thread even richer and more educational! :thumbsup
In reply to your question - the first several pieces were made at the Leningrad mint. Till 1944 LM produced a limited number of badges, and a large order was placed with the Moscow Artistic Cooperative. In 1944 LM was evacuated to Krasnokamsk, where production has continued. In 1944 they planned to make 3000 pieces, but made only 6; there is no data for 1945, and only limited data for 1946 - in March-September 5504 pieces were made.
According to Borisov some pieces were made in solid silver.
