Red Star.

[Koopyetz]

I would like to know about flared vs flat edged ORS's .Or to put it differently as you look directly at the Order some edges seem wider than others. Did they start out as flat and transition to flared.Can both be found throughout their existance.
Thank you

[jefflgarrison]

For those following the debate I raised referencing Soviet-Screwbacks.com, please bear with me as I try to answer this question. If I write something wrong, please correct (nicely).

Up until number 482.344 (highest according to Alex F's list) all stars were flat edged. This gave the star an overall red glass appearance due to only a slight amount of the edge appearing when viewed from top down.

Starting around 262.460 (again according to Alex F's list) flared edged stars began to appear. This also seems to correspond with the beginnings of some other "alterations" to the star: straight mint mark, concaved place behind the Hammer and Sickle and in some cases a concaved ring on the reverse.

Maybe Lapa or some others can explain why they switched (the last known flat edge star being 761.519. It would seem that a design change took place around the time of "long service" decree of November, 1944, since most of those numbers fall within this time (772.062 - 1.131.161).

One could also possilby argue that a design change also took place around the time of the "long service" decree of November, 1954, since this corresponds with the change to the face, foot and other features of the soldier on the medallion.

Anyone want to expound on this "theory"?

[Riley1965]

Rick,
According to the "Comprehensive Guide..." The Flat Star edges, No screwpost base, Monetny Dvor Mint has an observed serial number range between 265992-556842. The Flared star edges with no screw post base, Monetny Dvor Mint has an observed serial number range 529486-3831218.

Any further questions PLEASE feel to contact me or post them here.

All the Best,
Doc

[jefflgarrison]

Here is one for you guys.

Picked it up on the Polish "Allegro.pl" tonight.

Will be interested in seeing it first hand when it comes by mail.

According to the auction info, it was dug up at the spot where 3 T-34 tanks were destroyed in Lower Silesia during February 1945.

"ORDER CZERWONEJ GWIAZDY TRAFIONY W MIEJSCU ZNISZCZENIA TRZECH CZOŁGÓW T-34.WALKI O DOLNY ŚLĄSK-LUTY 1945 ROK. WYKOPEK. ZAKRĘTKA SPRAWNA.NUMER 871018."

Looks like it took a bit of a beating according to the photos. Would fire damage do this to the enamel? Seems to have some black marks on the lower right arm and on the screwback.

Impressions?

The other two photos are of another medal dug up in the same place. Possibly related to the first medal.

PS. Seems the hair in the front photo is there for size comparision? ;-)

[desantnik]

Here is one for you guys.

Picked it up on the Polish "Allegro.pl" tonight.

Will be interested in seeing it first hand when it comes by mail.

According to the auction info, it was dug up at the spot where 3 T-34 tanks were destroyed in Lower Silesia during February 1945.

"ORDER CZERWONEJ GWIAZDY TRAFIONY W MIEJSCU ZNISZCZENIA TRZECH CZOŁGÓW T-34.WALKI O DOLNY ŚLĄSK-LUTY 1945 ROK. WYKOPEK. ZAKRĘTKA SPRAWNA.NUMER 871018."

Looks like it took a bit of a beating according to the photos. Would fire damage do this to the enamel? Seems to have some black marks on the lower right arm and on the screwback.

Impressions?

The other two photos are of another medal dug up in the same place. Possibly related to the first medal.

PS. Seems the hair in the front photo is there for size comparision? ;-)

I would say ground dug. Serial numbers are logical too.

[Soviet]

I think it would be very interesting to research those awards if they were ever ground dug. You might get the story behind those medals! :thumbsup

[desantnik]

The research won't tell you anything about how the awards ended up there, in fact they may even end up unresearchable. The citations are for actions prior to the event that caused them to end up buried. These recipients also probably didn't live to tell about it, thus no voenkomat would have listed their awards on a post-war award card.

Echoes of War features a similar ground-dug Bravery Medal with a bullet hold through it. The research was returned for the award, but there was no KIA note or anything hinting at the fate of the owner other than a total abscence of any information occuring after the award citation.

[Al-muell]

I think it may be possible to research them, at least the Red Star. Some time ago in "militaria" section of allegro's forum a similar case was discussed. It seems, that You may at no risk ask the Russian Embessey about the receipent's data. From what I have heard it takes quite a long time, but they are helpful.
Was it expensive? I don't have much money right now, so I don't visit the site too often....
btw. Looks like it comes from my area.

[jefflgarrison]

There were four medals in all but I failed to get the last one which was a combat medal with the square suspension. It went for 154,50 zl in the end.

Maybe I can contact the winner and bargain it off of him.

Anyway, here are the other two medals from last night auction.

Given that there was the mention of "3 tanks" being destroyed in this spot, let's consider this scenerio.

The owner of these medals was possibly a tank driver or gunner. The tank was destroyed and those in the tank were killed and burned. A quick burial after the fact could have been done without checking for medals since those doing the burying would not have known and the corpse would have been not to pleasant to handle.

This could account for the scorch marks and the interesting enamel. Paul, have you seen enamel like this?

[jefflgarrison]

Was it expensive? I don't have much money right now, so I don't visit the site too often....
btw. Looks like it comes from my area.

Not too when you compare it to the prices in Budapest I saw this past week. They were wanting over $110 for an ORS in the 2.8 million range.:laff

154,00zl for the ORS