If NOT State Security/KGB Generals Boards-- Then WHAT?

[willie777]

Well, in the chart, the general boards are piped blue... Now if KGB general boards werent piped blue, what would they be piped?

[Tretov]

Originally Posted by willie777

Well, in the chart, the general boards are piped blue... Now if KGB general boards werent piped blue, what would they be piped?

The chart goes the logical way, but reality ain't logic.

KGB generals often (I can't say for all cases) the branch colour of their former units. Someone can probably fill in here for me, but as an example, KGB general Petrov wore red piped uniform for infantry, as he was assigned to a such during the war.

[DougD]

The issue here is post-1945 "KGB" generals uniforms (not talking of border troops here)....

In 1945 Beria had his commissars named generals (the list of who got what rank is in Conquests book on the NKVD in the 1930's) in 1945 to reflect that they had a more military role. A very rare example is in Sinclair/Drabik (i forget the page); the uniform of NKVD General Danill Esipenko.

Confirmation of this is also found in the KGB Museum where the one post-war generals uniform on display (i forget the name, but have a photo somewhere) with the red army piping, as well as the Petrov uniform which i used to own, that again shows the red piping.

As of yet there have not been ANY documented post 1945 KGB generals uniforms with blue piping.

As for Ricks boards....difficult to say what they could be, but they seem unissued to me...there was also an odd parade generals cap from the M55 era that was on E ahwile back with brick band and blue piping; i have not seen another of those, but it did not seem a copy (but also seemed unissued) and had blue piping....i bet these boards (same piping and era) go with that cap in a way.

dd

[ibaya]

Has anyone thought of writing to former KGB officials now in the West, such as former General-major Oleg Kalugin? Maybe they would be willing to provide a brief yes-or-no answer regarding what kind of uniform they had.

[desantnik]

Originally Posted by ibaya

Has anyone thought of writing to former KGB officials now in the West, such as former General-major Oleg Kalugin? Maybe they would be willing to provide a brief yes-or-no answer regarding what kind of uniform they had.

I don't mean to be dismissive of your valid suggestion, but I'm sure all ex-KGB defectors are a little more "squirrely" than usual after the Litvinenko affair. :cool: Answering a collector's uniform question probably wouldn't be high on their list.

[Tretov]

Please enjoy these photos of KGB Lieutnant-General Petrov. As you can see, his service uniform has the red piping. I also attached a photo of him wearing his parade uniform, and a photo from some meeting.

But why wouldn't they really just use royal blue piped uniform? Following logics, it would have been the simple solution?


I am no longer the owner of this uniform, as it was sold to a dedicated KGB and spy collector in Sweden this summer. I somewhat regret the sale, but it found a good home better than my basement.

[Lapa]

Rick, Doug,

A couple of precisions here:
. In the Police Museum in St Petersburg, there are two KGB uniforms displayed side by side, one of a colonel (don't remember his name) piped in dark blue as normal for KGB, and one of a general (also don't remember his name :( ) with the summer coat, all piped in red.
. Nobody in the St Petersburg collecting underground has ever heard or seen a KGB general's uniform piped in dark blue (boards included), regardless of the period.
. The dark red/dark blue combination that Doug mentioned was used for just a couple of years at the end of the 1950's~early 1960's by the MGB. I recently purchased directly from the family an officer's parade jacket with dark-red collar tabs and dark-blue piped boards. I also saw about a year ago in Paris a cap to this uniform, that is piped dark-blue around the crown with a dark-red band.

I forgot to mention one thing regarding your first pair of boards. During the war period, quality control was apparently somewhat lax when it came to minor details. What I mean to say, is that I have seen wartime airforce boards that were piped in a variety of colors, ranging from the usual light-blue to the NKVD/KGB dark-blue. I would not be otherwise surprized if it was one of these occurences.

Marc

[willie777]

Originally Posted by DougD

" Other than honor guards, The KGB was pretty much all spies."

I am not sure that could be more wrong. The KGB was huge; troops, gulag, border troops, etc. The vast majority of KGB were not spies at all.

DD

Sorry, my mind is going east german. Just like the Grenztruppen from the NVA, I classified th KGB Border Guards a separate from the KGB. The gulag was pretty much maintained by the NKVD, though.

[Lapa]

Willie,

The NKVD was the predecessor of the KGB. Once the organisation changed names, it assumed the functions of its predecessor.

Marc

[willie777]

Originally Posted by Lapa

Willie,

The NKVD was the predecessor of the KGB. Once the organisation changed names, it assumed the functions of its predecessor.

Marc

Well, the KGB only maintained the Gulag for about 6 years, from 1954 to 1960 when gulag was abolished.