Some Marshals caps

[Tal Inbar]

I saw those for sale, in the range of $150 - 200. Are they authentic, or reproductions?

[Tal Inbar]

you going to love this one....

[Tal Inbar]

-

[Tal Inbar]

+

[Tal Inbar]

And

[DougD]

...your question is real or jest, but for those who look at images like this on e-bay and don't know what they are, here goes.

Image one: generals cap, probably an unissued late 1980's one that has been sitting; hundreds for sale in Moscow. Not fake, but not "real" either. Sort of like buying a jesey at a sports game. Might be the same as the pros, but they never wore it.

The "KGB General" is a make up, not issued to KGB generals. MIGHT have been KGB/FSB inter years hat, but I don't think so myself. NKVD-NKGB generals switched to red army like insignia in 1945, and there are no regulations saying they switched back. The one KGB generals uniform on diaplay in the KGB museum in Moscow confirms this as it is with red insinia, not blue. These hats are logical in the fakers point of view as KGB officers wore blue; they just got it wrong. These are sold to tourists and newbie collectors.

The border guard generals hat is most likely made by the same guys ( or gals i guess) who made the KGB blue generals hat. These did exsist, but a real issued version has only been seen twice and both were from 1943.

The last one is another unissued or put together summer holiday dress hat like #1. It sufferes fromt he same problems.

DougD

[DougD]

sorry, forgot the middle one....the magenta is for generals of engineering and signals. MVD generals had a very dark brick color.

The condition of the hat makes it look like it has been in storage for years.

DD

[Tal Inbar]

Thanks, Doug (D)!

Indeed, my question was used to tell a little about those hats...

I think maybe it is good to have a guide on how not to buy fakes uniforms and hats, something like the guide Alexei wrote about awards.

Tal

[sovvisor]

The area is quite difficult. The factories mostly in Ukraine are still making these hats as they did during the soviet time. There were big deposits of material left after the breakdown of the USSR and these were used up. Therefore there are lots of soviet uniforms and visorhats in mint condition. It´s very hard to tell if its genuine or afterbreakdown produktion. The best way to tell is to look for weartraces. Especially around cufflinning neck and in the armpits. There a used uniform most likely have weartraces. A cap usually have these traces on the sweatdimond inside the visor and on the sweatband. Also there use to be dry cracks if it´s an older hat with plastic or leather sweatband. The visor usually have points were the soldier used to put his fingers when he put on the hat. Look dor traces here. Older caps and uniforms also usully have mothbites if they were made from cotton or wool.
Usage are a good sign that a piece is genuine. Thry to put on a visor and think about where your holding it and where your head touches the hat. The soldier most likely did it the same way.
Best wishes and good luck

[charlet]

If i can put my two cents; I see regularily those visor caps on the web or in bad dealers in Paris. I'm convinced mostly come from ukrainian factories.
Most have an ugly yellowish and big embrodery; but nicer embrodery is showing up. The yellow is more deep, clear gold, too brand new and glitter (?) to be honest. Sometimes, they do economies, savings on the small gold jetons (little discs) sewn between the laurel branches.
My first criteria is the crown size. The 1990' models have a huge, caricatural size (like mexican generals!). The nowadays ukrainian caps use this kind of proportion. 2nd, the sweat diamond bear no dating trace, it's not compulsory but when not present it is not very good for me. One cap over two have not a very well constructed and sewn crown. The crown bends down, is not symetrical.
And the visor is covered with a glitter brillant black plastic, typical of the very late 80'.

An american site sell them in quantities, with marshall stuff like if it was drowning! (they use national ukrainian symbol for their commercial reason).

A question: the walking-out grey visor caps (M1969 style) with large crowns and service visor caps small embrodery are relatively common. Don't like them.
But I bought for two bucks a visor cap of this kind, very well constructed, correct and symetrical embrodery, no dated. I costed me nothing, it fits me, so ok to scare friends during parties. But a good collector told me it was a transitionnal model betwwen CCCP and Russia. They're called "CIS models". It is right?

Sebastien