If NOT State Security/KGB Generals Boards-- Then WHAT?

[Rick Research]

I know that it is universally accepted that State Security generals did NOT wear the blueberry blue branch of service color of ranks up to Colonel, but in my Pile O' Mystery Objects from the mid 1990s are these :

First up, on a Generals' 11 Republics buttons 1943-46 white summer Kitel, perhaps a bit hard to tell since the scan is dark from being attached to the tunic---


blueberry blue underlay! :yow

[Rick Research]

Now obviously, ANY detachable insignia might have been put on at any time, and presence on a late WW2 tunic doesn't mean much... but the underlay isssssss blueberry blue.

As on THIS pair of M1958 field service boards, which came attached to nothing, but are theVERY green shade of uniforms before the M1969 mud-khaki was introduced:


again, blueberry blue underlay

[Rick Research]

With that loose pair, another, acquired at the same time. Much browner actually than the M1969 khaki, with a greenish star and again apparently "textbook" M1958 field uniform insignia

underlay in blueberry blue:

[Rick Research]

None of these were claimed as state security-- and indeed the sellers had no clue what they were-- nor did I offer any guesses before buying them.

More than 10 years have gone by and I have never seen any others, which seems to me a Fairly Good Sign anyway, since Naughty People engaged in collecting skullduggery are known for BULK and not one-offs.

Aside from CAVALRY, which likewise does not apply, what on Earth ARE these, if not State Security?

They are NOT mutant air force or M1943-47 civil police (Militia) which used robin's egg/sky blue-- and which shows up in dye batch mutations of an unpleasant pale gray-ish hue sometimes.

These are...


blueberry blue!!!! :yow

[Tretov]

Willie, rick's point in this is that the boards have the distinct state security royal blue colour although it has never been confirmed that generals of this branch wore them.

[willie777]

Well, in the chart, the general boards are piped blue... Now if KGB general boards werent piped blue, what would they be piped?

[Tretov]

Originally Posted by willie777

Well, in the chart, the general boards are piped blue... Now if KGB general boards werent piped blue, what would they be piped?

The chart goes the logical way, but reality ain't logic.

KGB generals often (I can't say for all cases) the branch colour of their former units. Someone can probably fill in here for me, but as an example, KGB general Petrov wore red piped uniform for infantry, as he was assigned to a such during the war.

[DougD]

The issue here is post-1945 "KGB" generals uniforms (not talking of border troops here)....

In 1945 Beria had his commissars named generals (the list of who got what rank is in Conquests book on the NKVD in the 1930's) in 1945 to reflect that they had a more military role. A very rare example is in Sinclair/Drabik (i forget the page); the uniform of NKVD General Danill Esipenko.

Confirmation of this is also found in the KGB Museum where the one post-war generals uniform on display (i forget the name, but have a photo somewhere) with the red army piping, as well as the Petrov uniform which i used to own, that again shows the red piping.

As of yet there have not been ANY documented post 1945 KGB generals uniforms with blue piping.

As for Ricks boards....difficult to say what they could be, but they seem unissued to me...there was also an odd parade generals cap from the M55 era that was on E ahwile back with brick band and blue piping; i have not seen another of those, but it did not seem a copy (but also seemed unissued) and had blue piping....i bet these boards (same piping and era) go with that cap in a way.

dd

[ibaya]

Has anyone thought of writing to former KGB officials now in the West, such as former General-major Oleg Kalugin? Maybe they would be willing to provide a brief yes-or-no answer regarding what kind of uniform they had.

[desantnik]

Originally Posted by ibaya

Has anyone thought of writing to former KGB officials now in the West, such as former General-major Oleg Kalugin? Maybe they would be willing to provide a brief yes-or-no answer regarding what kind of uniform they had.

I don't mean to be dismissive of your valid suggestion, but I'm sure all ex-KGB defectors are a little more "squirrely" than usual after the Litvinenko affair. :cool: Answering a collector's uniform question probably wouldn't be high on their list.