Groups?

[medals73]

On this forum (as opposed to others), I am struck that there isn't much attention to collecting and studying full groups.

Is this, in fact, the forum's attitude? And, if so, why?

[andrew6767]

I cant afford to buy groups , I cant even afford single orders these days due to the increased price of medals/orders and high costs of living that have hit Australia ( expensive fuel costs and high interest rates ).

I do enjoy reading about groups and the research on them which is something we arent seeing a lot of here unfortunately It would be good to see more people posting up some of their researched groups.

[Eryk]

Why aren't there more groups posted? Some ideas.

Price: Groups are expensive; most of the posters here are on a limited budget. ( and just read Andrews post...)

Historical Interest v. Collecting: The convergence of the desire to acquire artifacts and deep historical interest is not common. A dedicated historian can lack the desire to “have” something “historical” while a collector can completely lack the desire to know any more than a cursory history of an artifact.

Historians like to read and talk. Collectors like to fondle. Does the twain meet very often?

Flaws: No one wants to find out that what they have is a fake. Yet verifying even a modest sized group is many times harder than a single piece; one is not only dealing with the awards but with paper and text. Even what makes a “complete” group is open to debate. Imagine that many aren’t interested in the hassle.

As well (and this applies to singles), there’s the “if I don’t know something is bad then I can’t get accused of knowingly passing on a bad piece in the future” factor. With the higher price and greater chance of a flaw in groups to begin with this becomes a bigger issue than singles. Hence people don't post what they might someday want to sell.

Comparisons: Groups that evoke interest in others typically have to be intense. Wouldn’t doubt if many hesitate to post “yet another mediocre group” after doing a bit of looking at groups that are already out there.

Difficulty: Research involves lots of time, energy and money. Even after that most of the folks here don’t read Russian, so even more is spent to get it translated. All that means fewer people doing it.

Fear: “Hi! I have thousands of dollars worth of portable and liquid items here. Everybody, take a look!” It’s been said that you should treat anything posted on the net as if you’ve put up a billboard along the freeway with the same information. So most folks hesitate to announce to the world their possessions. Groups are the Big Dogs of medal collecting, so it’s not surprising that many of them don’t make it onto the web.

Lurking: On any board the vast majority of visitors never post, only read.

None of this is certain, just thoughts and opinion.

[UQWozza]

I largely agree with Eryk and Andrew, but here is one other factor which often seems to come in to play. That is that sellers, particularly on E***, often break up groups into several lots rather than selling as a single item. I have come across this with increasing regularity over the last 6 months or so. This means that I now have a series of broken groups which I would love to put back together <i>(little hope though!)</i> after being outbid on a single item in the group.

Like most <i>(probably all)</i> members here I would love to have an enormous collection of very interesting medals, both in and out of groups. However, the economic imperative for most of us these days is more of scraping an often not inconsequential number of dollars together to buy a half-decent single medal e.g. look at what ORS and Bravery medals are now selling for compared to a year or so ago.

Having said that there are still groups of anniversary medals with maybe a BM or CSM (often with full documentation) available in the $100-200 range. I have picked up a couple recently for framing for my home office.

Simon

[CtahhR]

I've picked up 2 large documented groups recently a soviet 13 medal plus badge and another document for $180 and a Bulgarian 2 order and 13 medal plus other documents for $180... I have picked up documented groups for as little as $4 in the last year but that was just for 4 commemorative medals but never the less it was a group! I absolutely hate dealers or collectors pulling apart documented groups.... The chances are they'll never be brought back together again no matter how hard anyone tries....:thumbsdown

[charlet]

Ed, I believe this forum focused on single medals and single documents only because it was tacitately considered every single part of any group should be examinated one by one for precise authentification. It is exact we didn't discuss a lot of groups and researches. From my point of view it is a good thing this forum specialized in its great past hours in phaleresitics technical discussions. Art's forum is the reference place to examinate acurately every component of a group: because we must face the possibility of re-assembled or uprgraded groups with "external" or fakes pieces thrown in genuine others ones. When the collector has gathered all infos about the puzzle here , he's then able to go on the historical side.

[EricFG]

E) Neither groups or research. The ODM is all.

[Lapa]

Eric,

Sounds like #1 to me in your case

Marc

[charlet]

the #4 is the ideal way for me; in an ideal world EVERY medal has its history

[EricFG]

Eric, Sounds like #1 to me in your case Marc

Indeed. I found a rusty pair of scissors and a blunt cold chisel in the gutter the other day. I plan on hacking up all those big groups I have so they display easier. I also found a bunch of new, 1-piece aluminum suspensions so I can replace all those rusty 2-piece steel and brass supensions. Not to mention new ribbons.

But seriously. I was talking to Brian just the other day and I brought up the point that I could really care less for big, massive groupings of long service medals. Nor do I get excited about finding out about the name of some guy who won my Nevsky or OG2. One; some guy spent long years in the Army and got rewarded. Big Deal. Two; he got an OG2. There is no doubt, as long as the medal I have is legit, that this particular medal is special. I don't need to dump another 200 beans to find out how many Hitlerites he singlehandedly destroyed; I am satisfied with the fact that what I have is pretty damn special (and I will value it so, as such, as long as the current monetary system is in place).

Eryk made some extremely good points above.

One other thing. As a person of German extraction I have a fear of getting a bit too personal when it comes to rewards for defeating the Hitlerite Hoardes. I know of two (extended) Uncles (in service of the Wehrmacht) who did not return from the Stalingrad area of operations. The less detailed information I have perhaps the better. ?