Red Banner.

[Nota Bene]

Majorpayne,

It's perfectly genuine, except for the screwplate.

Alexei

[JensF.]

Hi guys,

any opinions about this one? With the number 50060 it should be from about the end of 1942. Would be interesting to research.

[new world]

Fellows,

This Red Banner Mirror Reverse is offered for sale by a major dealer. Here's the description:

"Order of the Red Banner, Type 1, Var. 2 (screw back with "mirror reverse"), #15932, circa 1941. ... Well preserved original gilt ...."

As far as I know - mirror reverse RBs should not have any gilt. All RBs that I have in my collection have no traces of gilt (and some of them are near mint condition). Also, I have never seen any RBs with gilt in the web.

So, what's going on with the piece that's offered for sale - it looks fine to me except the gold plating...

Have you ever seen a Red Banner, Mirror Reverse type with gilt????

Thanks,
William

[yolkin]

William,

I have also not seen an RB MR in such a good condition (not to mention the gilt). The price is also quite high ($590).

By the way, the same dealer has another MR for sale s/n 15132. The two pieces should be from the same batch, posess same characteristics, etc.

Eric

[new world]

William,

...By the way, the same dealer has another MR for sale s/n 15132. The two pieces should be from the same batch, posess same characteristics, etc.

Eric

Well, I don't see any gilt on the second piece.

William

[yolkin]

Well, I don't see any gilt on the second piece.

William

yep...

So I am guessing that the piece in question was either stored in a box for all these years, or has had a "touch-up" on the gilt. I am guessing it is probably the former.

Why not ask the dealer?

Eric

[AlexF.]

Guys,
Mirror's were not gilted, veteran probably gold-plated it on his own, since it's a relatively late award for the 'mirror', close enough to first 'mondvor' productions (which were, in turn, gilted). Perhaps, his second R.B. was awarded with gilt, and he wanted them to look alike!?

- Alex.

[Nota Bene]

Alex,

The gilt is not original, no doubt about that, but it looks like a recent job to me - too thorough and no patina at all. I am also not sure if the red enamel is genuine. What do you think?

Alexei

[new world]

Alex,

The gilt is not original, no doubt about that, but it looks like a recent job to me - too thorough and no patina at all. I am also not sure if the red enamel is genuine. What do you think?

Alexei

I've seen some Nevsky orders with restored gold plating - could be that the same repair shop applied gilt on this Red Banner.

It's hard to tell about enamel just by the photo alone. It looks like startips have darker enamel than the banner has.

William

[AlexF.]

Well, Alexei, it's hard to tell about the enamel, scans are small, lighting is not uniformed and centered, etc. I don't rule out that the enamel is perfect AND original, I have a couple of such orders myself, although, there are collectors, who believe that early order of Red Banner cannot have perfect enamel, by definition... One thing in relevance to the order in question, though, somehow, this dealer never gets COA's for these Red Banners (which are very unusual in such shape!), but gets them for other, more commonly found orders, that cost the same (Nevsky #6725, for instance)...
Just wonder why such discrimination?

Thanks,

- Alex.